The Grace of Forgiving

[awakening2lite]

The Grace of Forgiving

When we talk about forgiving we are referring to a state of mind where we have already acknowledged the damages done to us and the damages we have caused to fall upon others. Forgiving is an integral a part of our human experience just as the rising of the sun is to it’s setting, as hot is to cold, as our inner knowledge of ourselves is to how we are perceived by others. Forgiving completes the circle and brings us back to who we truly are with the wisdom and privilege of the experience. Giving forgiveness with grace elevates us to being able to forgive ourselves for our own short comings and for the wrongs we have done to others and the grace to accept the forgiveness of others.

Why forgiving is important

From the time we come into the world to the day we leave it, we will constantly be in a position to receive insult to the psychic, the body, the mind, the emotions, the sense of self and all the forms it takes. In every way possible we can and are subject to be assaulted and insulted, or ignored, or shamed, or shunned. We all know we can hold onto that hurt and all the forms it takes, and for a time that is important to do. But, it isn’t all that we should do. With that we are given the opportunity to embrace the other side of harm, we can forgive. When we forgive we have made a conscious decision that what was done to us will no longer define who we are. We will have decided to release ourselves from the action, the person associated with that action, and walk away without the resentment, without the hate and anger. When we forgive we give ourselves our life back. We become more than what we were and become able to appreciate joy and love in deeper richer dimensions than we could have previous to the injury, or the loss we forgave.

When we need to forgive

When our thoughts return to places in our past which lead to sadness, blame, shame, loss and those thoughts appear frequently in our lives interfering with our ability to deserve joy, we need to forgive. When we feel anger over the small petty things or allow ourselves to be quick to judge others harshly, we need to forgive ourselves and others. If we start our day with thoughts of ‘ole poor me’ or ‘why me’, we need to forgive and let go of whatever happened to us that changed us and lead us to these thoughts. We need to forgive when we feel bad about ourselves, or unappreciated, or blamed. We need to forgive when remembering a wrong has become a ritual and our thoughts and feelings become focused on little else. We need to forgive ourselves and others. And we need to be thankful for the opportunity to experience the grace of forgiving others and ourselves.

How can we forgive

We decide to forgive. We decide to forgive ourselves. We decide to do this and to begin a new life, for life is certain to move forward. And life moves forward, with us or without us. We decide to forgive when we decide we will move forward, in life, with life, with humanity. We forgive when we realize we cannot change even the last second as it ticked past us. We forgive so that we can live in the now because we deserve to participate in our life. We forgive when we recognize our self in others, the reflection of ourselves is not without the need for forgiveness, and that reflection wants to be alive and happy. We forgive because it is essential for the enrichment of our own lives.

Where we seek forgiveness

Forgiveness begins the moment we believe we deserve to be happy and alive today. Forgiveness begins in that tiny grain of thought nudging our hearts and seeking to feel love deeper than surface sentiments. Forgiveness begins when we feel we want something better to cling to than harsh memories and self questioning and the hunt for reasons we can never expect to find. We seek forgiveness first in the mind, then the heart, and then in the doing. We seek to forgive and we seek to be forgiven with equal passion and importance. This is as natural as the flow of water from the mountain top refreshes the valley below. Forgiveness cleanses as sure as the water falls from above and washes the earth. Forgiveness flows thru us cleansing our soul and heart and mind. When we seek to forgive we are also seeking to free ourselves of the guilt of not forgiving. We do this for ourselves. We do this to set ourselves free. And we seek to be forgiven for exactly the same reasons. We are not meant to carry the burden of the unforgiven on our delicate souls. To heal, we forgive.

Who we become when we forgive

When we forgive we are free to enjoy the sun rise in all its joyful celebration of the new day and the new hope it provides. We are free to move without a heavy burden aching to be lifted from our put upon psychic. We are free to love again, to believe in happiness, to deserve and pursue our dreams. We are released, we can spread our wings, and we have the knowledge we have released ourselves. We are deserving of forgiveness by the act of forgiving through grace.

[texanne]

Example. I was reading the words of a local woman when she spoke in court to the man who beat her son to death. The murderer and a woman beat the victim over the head with blunt objects, kicked him, etc...the whole bit. Then they drove him to his home and threw him on his doorsteps, leaving him to die. I knew the mother of the victim years ago when she was my daughter's kindergarten teacher. She is an absolutely lovely, energetic woman who contributes to her community in many ways. Her son was a friend of my daughter when they were in school. At the sentencing hearing, this mother hugged her son's murderer and told him that she prayed he could find a way to turn his life around and find purpose to his life. The killer got a whopping 8 years for the murder. All I can say is that this mother is a better person than I am. The judge lectured the murderer and told him that he had just witnessed the actions of a Christian. We can preach forgiveness, but how many of us could forgive like she did?

[Firehead]

I think the one thing is if one doesn't forgive, then the bitterness eats away at you and in the end you are the loser of the event. I am not saying, forget about it all, just remember the lesson you learned from the event.

Last year, my step daughter did me wrong big time. It took a few months to forgive and try to work past it but it is slowly happening. What was lost was the trust and respect that I had for her. Does this mean I have not fully forgiven? I don't know. I know that I will not forget.

[grammybears]

Forgiveness can take a long time. When my daughter was murdered I was so angry with her husband because of his actions.he took my daughter away. I found in time I was not going to go to that dark place where he is at. I didn't really think I had forgiven him but I prayed about it for a long time. I did not want that hate in my life. The husband did go to prison but not for my daughters death. When he got out he tried to get in touch with us. I refused to talk to him. I told my family I did not want his darkness to enter our life. My girls told him to not call us, but he insisted. Finally when he got nowhere with my accepting his call he showed up at my husbands work. The receptionist rang my husband and he told her to tell him to go away. She said are you sure and he said yes. We have never heard from him since. I know my daughter is in a much better place now. This man is not a member of our family, yes I have forgiven him but I will never forget what he did to my daughter. I did not forgive him for his sake, I did it for my sake. I didn't like how I was feeling when associated with my daughter, so yes you can forgive someone and not forget the actions.

jmoo

[nanabillie]

I should never be surprised when something like this happens, but I still am sometimes. Just this week I saw an advertisement for the old Clint Eastwood movie
Unforgiven. It just hit me. What a terrible word. Unforgiven. I hope I am never on either side of that word. I know that to be forgiven by Christ, we must forgive others. Thanks.

[Grins]

God taught me to decide to forgive.
He showed me how~
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
.....he included me
forgave me
Therefore I forgive myself. I forgive everyone in my life; for my sake not theirs~
Refusal to forgive is drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.

[rockford2]

Example. I was reading the words of a local woman when she spoke in court to the man who beat her son to death. The murderer and a woman beat the victim over the head with blunt objects, kicked him, etc...the whole bit. Then they drove him to his home and threw him on his doorsteps, leaving him to die. I knew the mother of the victim years ago when she was my daughter's kindergarten teacher. She is an absolutely lovely, energetic woman who contributes to her community in many ways. Her son was a friend of my daughter when they were in school. At the sentencing hearing, this mother hugged her son's murderer and told him that she prayed he could find a way to turn his life around and find purpose to his life. The killer got a whopping 8 years for the murder. All I can say is that this mother is a better person than I am. The judge lectured the murderer and told him that he had just witnessed the actions of a Christian. We can preach forgiveness, but how many of us could forgive like she did?


She is a much better person than I, because there is NO WAY I could forgive anyone who takes my child's life away in a way like that. And I won't be spending my days filled with hate, but rather, in ways to help keep the kller(s) behind bars for the rest of THEIR natural lives.....and that is what I would do if I were this woman. SHe can forgive, blessed be to her, but how does she know that her son's killers won't go and do it to somebody else's child(ren)?

Anyone who can do what you posted, Texanne, to another human being is just plain evil and making sure that these people remain in prison for a good long time, is what I would do for the rest of my life to help myself AND for others.

Forgiveness when something is done in a mistake or by accident, is a whole different thing, IMO.

[awakening2lite]

Einstein’s theory of time travel was of speed and the future, my vehicle is of emotion and the inescapable past that visits whenever I almost stop thinking about it. Today is one of those days when yesterday, and all its’ sister dreaded yesterdays, blended into now. Swirling snap shots of the middle, the end, the in between, the start and the jumbled sounds of people’s echoed words talking both all at once, and one at a time, whirl around me with impact. It’s said there are always moments in life where the road forks, or cross roads intersect and choice exists, even though it maybe unknown to us. Every time (it happens) I am closer to seeing, finding, knowing, the exact moment when everything could have been different. That single moment of 60 tiny seconds where my actions could intercede and (might have, no, would have) made a life of difference to my son.

When my tears have cried out dry, when lungs forced wind across my silenced vocal cords is fruitless, and that lump beneath my breast bone quivers, beating excruciatingly hard with determination to be released, I unfold my fetal position, stretching out face down, arms extended. I lay prostrate before Almighty God. I pray to be heard. In silence I cry out, and beg, for His audience, then even though I know one cannot (should not), I sincerely bargain and promise anything and everything. Let me step back to that yesterday, to that single moment before it all began. Let me know to take that step to the left, instead of the right. Let me be that yesterday’s butterfly, flapping my tiny wings, in a far away jungle, changing forever what was and what is to be. Grant me that single moment.
And if any pain is to be drawn, any agony imposed, any balance to be kept, Dear Lord, let it fall only on me.

[Grins]

Unforgiveness,
a decision to refuse to forgive which I made on an ongoing basis, included for me
anger >rage>thoughts of revenge>obsession>deep depression
all of which I used as an excuse to get drunk.

Drunk, I destroyed my marriage and profession of thirty years.
Drunk and shamed I planned my suicide.

Hence:
Unforgiveness; my decision to refuse to forgive,
cost me my marriage and profession of thirty years.
Unforgiveness led me to make a suicide attempt September 23, 1996.

Was unforgiveness harmful to me?

Notice, nothing has been said about who or how or what or how serious or grave the insult or wrong done me. Nothing about asking for or deserving forgiveness.

I must forgive for my sake.

[african grey]

Einstein’s theory of time travel was of speed and the future, my vehicle is of emotion and the inescapable past that visits whenever I almost stop thinking about it. Today is one of those days when yesterday, and all its’ sister dreaded yesterdays, blended into now. Swirling snap shots of the middle, the end, the in between, the start and the jumbled sounds of people’s echoed words talking both all at once, and one at a time, whirl around me with impact. It’s said there are always moments in life where the road forks, or cross roads intersect and choice exists, even though it maybe unknown to us. Every time (it happens) I am closer to seeing, finding, knowing, the exact moment when everything could have been different. That single moment of 60 tiny seconds where my actions could intercede and (might have, no, would have) made a life of difference to my son.

When my tears have cried out dry, when lungs forced wind across my silenced vocal cords is fruitless, and that lump beneath my breast bone quivers, beating excruciatingly hard with determination to be released, I unfold my fetal position, stretching out face down, arms extended. I lay prostrate before Almighty God. I pray to be heard. In silence I cry out, and beg, for His audience, then even though I know one cannot (should not), I sincerely bargain and promise anything and everything. Let me step back to that yesterday, to that single moment before it all began. Let me know to take that step to the left, instead of the right. Let me be that yesterday’s butterfly, flapping my tiny wings, in a far away jungle, changing forever what was and what is to be. Grant me that single moment.
And if any pain is to be drawn, any agony imposed, any balance to be kept, Dear Lord, let it fall only on me.

I just happened to come across this as I was trolling around the site. This is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. I recently lost someone that I once loved so very much and even though it has been many years ago it seems like I was pushed right back to the year 1979. And I do wish I had taken some different steps back then. I totally understand this quote. It was a relationship that did not have a happy ending but that does not stop the pain of knowing he has gone from this earth. From what I have read it appears you are talking about a child, if so I am so sorry for your loss.

Again, this is beautiful.

JMHO
AG

[awakening2lite]

I just happened to come across this as I was trolling around the site. This is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. I recently lost someone that I once loved so very much and even though it has been many years ago it seems like I was pushed right back to the year 1979. And I do wish I had taken some different steps back then. I totally understand this quote. It was a relationship that did not have a happy ending but that does not stop the pain of knowing he has gone from this earth. From what I have read it appears you are talking about a child, if so I am so sorry for your loss.

Again, this is beautiful.

JMHO
AG

Thank you for your kind and generous words. It makes me very happy to know you got it. It's refreshing to meet a like mind.

I am sorry to learn of your loss. Although, I know words can mean little, compared to your pain, I hope you will realize the sincerity in them.



My son was not lost to physical death, for which I am thankful.

[packy]

Very beautiful, Awake, and leads me to ponder who needs the most forgiveness, and sometimes it's the self as well as toward others. To me forgiveness all around is key to bringing my dead soul back to life, and not just for the sake of forgiveness in itself but because of the feeling of compassion that derives from the knowlege of the frailty of our humaness. But it is hard. And I say too much so that's all she wrote.

[awakening2lite]

Very beautiful, Awake, and leads me to ponder who needs the most forgiveness, and sometimes it's the self as well as toward others. To me forgiveness all around is key to bringing my dead soul back to life, and not just for the sake of forgiveness in itself but because of the feeling of compassion that derives from the knowlege of the frailty of our humaness. But it is hard. And I say too much so that's all she wrote.

All this time since you posted this, my thoughts have traveled back to the profoundness of your understanding. I had to step away for a while to consider its completeness. There is great elegance in your compassion. How wonderful, it is to meditate on the understanding, wisdom, and passion, in your single contemplative sentence. Thank you for the comfort.

The Circle of Forgiveness.
Its beginning matters not, and in its ending, it begins.

[Grins]

Unforgiveness leads to many murders.
Fantasies of revenge, hurting back, planning various harms, taking delight in scenarios of rampage~then~
shooting of innocent people at school, at an exercise venue, at the workplace or homes of relatives
and we say
why?

If I decide to forgive
God will get me through the rest~

[awakening2lite]

Unforgiveness leads to many murders.
Fantasies of revenge, hurting back, planning various harms, taking delight in scenarios of rampage~then~
shooting of innocent people at school, at an exercise venue, at the workplace or homes of relatives
and we say
why?

If I decide to forgive
God will get me through the rest~

I wonder, sometimes, if unforgiving isn't promoted in our culture. From what I see, in the modern media of movies and printed materials, is a kind for glorious admiration for those that do not forgive as they seek revenge.

Revenge, unforgiving, holding onto anger, is the easy road. Nothing is required to follow it. Forgiving, on the other hand, truly forgiving requires courage, effort, and introspection, whether we are forgiving others or ourselves.

When a tragedy happens to a family member, or someone we know, sooner or later we will feel the guilt of 'what if'. The only way to overcome it in ourselves is to forgive ourselves of our own humanity. To truly do that, we must be forgiving of others.

IMO

[awakening2lite]

This quote was excerpted from a web site of one of our missing persons, Kellie "Wednesday" Hall. The author, as she states on her website, is unknown to her, but the quote was obtained from Zaada. It seems to belong here, I hope you'll agree.

'What you resist persists. What you accept you transcend. Transcending is a letting go of; no longer holding on to.

Pure love is who you are! When your express pure love, you give yourself the direct experience of who you are. It is the greatest gift! It looks as if you are giving a gift to others, but you are giving it to yourself; that is because there is no one else in the room, it only looks as if there is.'

[Grins]

Excellent posts A2L and all!

FORGIVENESS

My experience in recovery from depression taught me to forgive.
For my sake. For my health. For my peace of mind. For my spiritual good.
It is said, "Unforgiveness is drinking poison and hoping the wrongdoer dies."

I hate, I die; my relationships die; my self-esteem dies; my peace dies; my poison splashes over on all around me.

Do you know anyone like that?
Always critical and putting you down?

It is important to know that~
~
Forgiveness is NOT:
=making light of the crime or hurt or harm
=saying it doesn't matter
=saying the criminal deserves unforgiveness
=saying he has to say he is sorry
=saying I can forget the crimes
=saying I have warm feelings for the criminal
or want to have any contact
=saying the criminal deserves forgiveness
=saying I feel like forgiving.
~
Forgiveness IS:
=deciding to forgive no matter how I feel
=for the benefit of my spiritual, physical and emotional recovery and release from the bondage of hate

For me it is also,
=letting all the rage and frustration go to God and asking for the strength to decide forgive and to pray for the salvation of the criminal
=for the restoration of peace in my heart
=obedience to God's requirement to forgive as he forgave his killers from the cross

Psychiatrists have 'discovered' the healing power of forgiveness in recent books and studies!

I have tried the above in my life, and IT WORKS!
While I was hating my enemy, God showed me how to forgive and my long painful depression lifted and I was and am FREE.
I refuse to let the evil-doer keep hurting me.

Remember,
forgiveness is a decision not a feeling.

[nanabillie]

I think I know what Packy is saying. I want to forgive. I have "made the decision to forgive", I have prayed to forgive. Not for the person that hurt me, but for myself so I can feel a burden lifted that has been with me for 21 years! I'm tired of it. That person probably never thinks about it.

That really doesn't matter. It's me, all me. Am I not as close to God as the ones able to forgive? I'm a good person, I try everyday of my life to help others but I can't do this one thing to help myself.
Even saying this, on this forum, makes me feel sad that I may be letting someone down that thinks I should be a better Christian. One who is able to forgive. I started trying the very day I was so hurt. I told the person that I had to forgive them or Christ would not forgive me.

I'm sorry for intruding on a forum for grieving family member of missing, murdered or suicide. Thank God I'm not one who has lived that terrible experience.
Saying all of this isn't so someone will feel sorry for me, I've done that plenty over the years. Sometimes it helped. Feeling sorry for myself is such a waste of time.
I've wondered if having shock treatments like you see in movies would even help.
I wonder if I didn't remember what happened if my heart would still hurt, because it doesn't feel like it is my memory but my heart that is so bruised and damaged.

Will I go to hell because I haven't forgiven someone that did so wrong and yet they may go to Heaven? That doesn't seem fair.
Not that God isn't fair, He tells us what to do. It's my human frailty, I suppose.
I didn't come here for this, I came to uplift someone with what I heard a minister say.
Living in the past was like riding down the road on the tailgate of a pickup truck. You never see the future because you are always seeing what's already passed.
I know.

[awakening2lite]

Bille,

Your post has really touched me. Your honesty and sincerity I found to be poignant. It moved me.

We all have those things we need to forgive and to be forgiven for, and sometime the most important - and the hardest - is to forgive ourselves. I believe we all struggle with that. I hope your journey will take you to that place where you will find relief from your burdens. Lite

[nanabillie]

Thank you my sweet and precious friend. Your comments and support mean more to me than you know. I always hope the things I say are taken as I mean them. It has helped me so very much to be able to come here and share things that I have not shared with anyone in over 20 years. Things that build and build and it's like they are parts of a tree, grafted on top of one another and each time a hurtful memory hits, another layer is grafted on.
Too bad "Roundup" doesn't do the trick!
I've been thinking about Grins statement that you have to decide to forgive.
I can deside to walk across the room, and do it. I can deside to fly across the room and I know that's impossible no matter how badly I want to. And it isn't like I have decided I don't want to forgive, believe me, I do. Can you forgive and still have hurt feelings toward someone? Maybe I have forgiven that person. But I still want to know that the person has to pay in some way. Maybe they have and I just don't know it.
I've told myself lots of times that "Vengence is mine saith the Lord". I know that.

[awakening2lite]

Billie, I wish I could make it all go away.

I have thought about forgiveness for years.

Here are some of my thoughts I fall back on whenever I need it. Maybe it will help you. I hope so.

If vengeance is the Lord's business - is it such a big step to trust in that promise?

Forgiving does not mean we do not want justice for the wrong, or a penalty imposed on person who earned it.

Forgiving doesn't mean we are given a pass on having feelings or our memory will be erased. It is not that simple, or that easy.

Forgiving is a struggle - not forgiving is not a struggle and offers no relief.

It means we are willing to take control over our own life and realizing we have a desire to live free of continuous negative thoughts. By the act of forgiving we allow ourselves to begin to ease the burden of a bad memory which, by association, has poisoned the good memories we should be treasuring.

Billie, you are in my prayers.

[Linda W]

How do you even begin to forgive and when?

[nanabillie]

Welcome Linda,
I think by asking for forgiveness yourself. The main thing that has troubled, or burdened me for over 21 years is knowing if I don't forgive someone that has hurt me, Christ won't forgive me. In my opinion, forgiving and being forgiven go hand in hand.

[Linda W]

I talked him out of hitch hiking that afternoon. Told him I would wire him money in the morning to take the Bus. He was murdered that night...You know when your kids won't listen to you? That time he did, he was murdered..

[packy]

Oh, Linda, I'm so sorry for your loss. Sometimes I think that they who are gone from us would say, "we're okay and we want you to be okay." And if we think of it happening in reverse most of us might say that to those we left behind. Not that anything really helps the hurt I know.

[Claycat]

Linda, I'm almost at a loss for words. Bless you! I'm so sorry!

[nanabillie]

Linda, God bless you. I am glad that I can say I don't know how you feel. I know you probably blame yourself, but you did not murder your son. You were trying to help him, not hurt him. There was no way for you to know what would happen.

I often give my opinion on something, such as this thread, to then find out I had no idea what was going on in your mind. My hurt is nothing compared to yours. There are others here who have lost children to violence, accident, suicide. I'm sure this wonderful group will be able to help you.
If you even just want to talk, please feel free to PM me.

[P.I.Jane]

I have just found this thread for the first time. I have to be honest..I read Nana's post above and I wanted to see what she was saying to Linda. Then in reading up the next few posts I see where Linda tells of losing her son. My heart immediately hurt. At that point I knew if I read much more that I would probably be depressed for the rest of the day, but I continued to read.

My emotions were deep with so many profound messages from all of you and yet I ended up not being depressed at all, but instead embraced the fact that I was in the presence of some very wise, compassionate and wonderful people and my thoughts are not of being depressed, but instead are of being grateful.

Some of you know that I am extremely close to a missing child's case. I am not "family" in blood terms, but I am in every other way. I agonize every single day on the whereabouts of our loved one and I agonize even more while watching his daddy deal with the not knowing.

I don't post on a regular basis in the threads because, for me, it is so painful to read and know that so many people are missing and the pain the families and friends go through in the aftermath of the day their loved one went missing. I have started many times to respond in a thread, but my thoughts begin to go so deep that I have to just walk away for a bit.

But today was different. It took me a while, but I wanted to finish my first initial thoughts that I experienced after reading here today. I feel truly blessed to have gotten to know so many of you and want you to know that although I am mostly silent, I am here and I am profoundly thankful for all of you. You help me stay grounded in so many ways that today I wanted to thank you for being you.

Love, Jane

[Harmony]

I talked him out of hitch hiking that afternoon. Told him I would wire him money in the morning to take the Bus. He was murdered that night...You know when your kids won't listen to you? That time he did, he was murdered..

Linda, I am so sorry for your pain. There are no words that express the love a mother has for her child. None capture the depth of emotion. I have a friend in her fifties, she is quite a bit older than me, but for the last 15 years or so she has struggled with depression and despair. Fifteen years ago her son was in another city attending college. He had received some kind of award and was slated to be presented the award at a ceremony. He wanted to come home that weekend but she encouraged him to stay. She has a blunt manner in her presentation at times which is just part of her dynamic personality. Anyway, she has struggled with what she said to her son in convincing him to stay to receive the award. She said to him "It isn't going to kill you to stay for the weekend." He was killed by a drunk driver as he crossed the street, on the day she had made this statement to him.

I know you will find caring people here who will wrap you in their loving arms and support you. I always tell my friend that her son loved her so much and he would not want her to blame herself. He would not want for her to hurt. He would want the best for her. I am certain your son would want that for you too. Take care!! :give_rose:

[Linda W]

Thanks to all for your replys.
You think you have it bad, then you hear someone else story.
Was having another one of those bad day's. My sister hurt my mother very bad. (feelings). it was years ago.. Just a couple years ago, my mother said to me, I don't know why she can't get passed it even thou she told me she was very sorry. I said to her, that's because she has not forgiven herself. I guess sometimes we should take our own advice... Depression yes.. me too. I dream about him and in the dreams, he cries.
I think it's because he has not had Justice.. It's been 17 months.
In a way I feel I am very lucky. There are so many parents that don't know where or what happened to their kids.. I know where my son is.. Thanks to all...

[P.I.Jane]

Thanks to all for your replys.
You think you have it bad, then you hear someone else story.
Was having another one of those bad day's. My sister hurt my mother very bad. (feelings). it was years ago.. Just a couple years ago, my mother said to me, I don't know why she can't get passed it even thou she told me she was very sorry. I said to her, that's because she has not forgiven herself. I guess sometimes we should take our own advice... Depression yes.. me too. I dream about him and in the dreams, he cries.
I think it's because he has not had Justice.. It's been 17 months.
In a way I feel I am very lucky. There are so many parents that don't know where or what happened to their kids.. I know where my son is.. Thanks to all...

I can't agree with you more, Linda. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have never had to endure that type of tragedy in my family thus I can never say I understand. With all of my heart I hope that justice will come for your son soon. Justice will not relieve your pain, I know that, but hopefully you can feel some sense of relief when that day comes. (((hugs)))