Castration

[Roamer]

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=8350057&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Castration Law

A new bill is scheduled to be introduced into the Alabama Legislature this week requiring convicted sex offenders who targeted young children be castrated before they leave prison. If the bill passes, it would require surgical castration for male sex offenders older than 21 convicted of a sex crime against a victim younger than 12. Nine other states in the country already have similar laws, but those states require chemical castration, not surgical.

[Pandabear]

I don't have any problem with this law at all.

JMO

[Roamer]

I don't either, Panda.

[Alibar]

I have no problem with it at all, but, I doubt it would hold up in our courts the first time some man decides to test it.

[texanne]

When it comes to a pervert who preys on our children, I have no problem with castration. I do have some questions about the effectiveness of it, however. I remember reading on another forum some time back that it gives a sense of false security because the pervert has a sick mind. They may still have a mental desire to harm children. I do not know how true that is, because sometimes the links posted to support such arguments are not really reliable.

[Firehead]

Although I don't have a problem with castration, I sincerely doubt that it would prove to be an effective solution to child molesters or rapists. Have there not been studies that child molestion is really not about sex but more about the power one has over another? Would these same people now use a subsitute item for penetration? How well did the chemical castration work for those who had to be medicated?

[nanabillie]

I think if enough men are castrated as soon as they are found guilty, it might deter other's from commenting rapes. I don't want them to have chemical castration, either.
I would actuarially like to see Lorena Bobbit hired and let her perform he type surgery on them. I think a lot of men would think twice if they thought that is what would happen to them if they were caught. If Lorena is busy, just pay for my flight.

[sciencegirl]

This is a good law and should be adopted by all states. IMO.

[maryhaze]

well, i suppose (mumble) if we have to (grumble)...... i'd rather just kill them & be done with it tho.

[Mrs Robinson]

The ACLU will be screaming about this bill, what is the plan for female sex offenders? It seems to be the rage now for good looking female teachers to have sex with their pupils, some of the victims are very young and if you're keeping track many (teachers) have been getting off with a slap on the wrist.

[maryhaze]

The ACLU will be screaming about this bill, what is the plan for female sex offenders? It seems to be the rage now for good looking female teachers to have sex with their pupils, some of the victims are very young and if you're keeping track many (teachers) have been getting off with a slap on the wrist.



see, that's why mine is the best idea. it'll work for both sexes!

[Bernie]

well, i suppose (mumble) if we have to (grumble)...... i'd rather just kill them & be done with it tho.

I think it should hold the death penalty....for both sexes....there is no known cure........:howdy:

[texanne]

The ACLU will be screaming about this bill, what is the plan for female sex offenders? It seems to be the rage now for good looking female teachers to have sex with their pupils, some of the victims are very young and if you're keeping track many (teachers) have been getting off with a slap on the wrist.

You have a point there. A teacher in Houston (where there is an epidemic of teacher/child molesters) just got a slight slap on the wrist when she was actually caught in the act with a young student. What do we do with them? I was disgusted that she was not given at least 5 yrs. in prison.

[Mrs Robinson]

You have a point there. A teacher in Houston (where there is an epidemic of teacher/child molesters) just got a slight slap on the wrist when she was actually caught in the act with a young student. What do we do with them? I was disgusted that she was not given at least 5 yrs. in prison.
What is disgusting is light sentences seemed to be based on how hot the woman is. A woman in Denver (I think) was trying to be the cool mom and was having sex with all her son's friends who were 16,17. She was also providing booze, anyway she was not very attractive and she got 30 years.

[SavannahStar]

I think it should hold the death penalty....for both sexes....there is no known cure........:howdy:

I don't condone the DP for anyone at all but I'd sure vote for LWOP....forEVAH. And that means in a little cell with no amenities at all. For LIFE.

[Smokey Stover]

Wow! Bloodthirsty words. I am particularly intrigued by the proposal of dire punishment for teachers who do something to or with their students. Can we narrow it down some? Are we talking about male teachers who have sex with female students? Who manhandle one or more female students? Who have affairs with willing female students?

And what punishments do we have in mind? If a girl in the senior class flirts with a male teacher until he responds by kissing her, is this going to be punishable by castration?

Long ago my sister was manhandled by the gym teacher (male), and no one in the family learned about it except me, a few years later, when we no longer lived in that town. I reacted strongly, but she insisted that she didn't want me to do anything.

Then there's the question of female teachers and willing male students who have achieved, let's say, the height of 5'11" or so, and the age of 17 or 18. To call all of these males victims goes too far, in my view. I'm speaking from experience. Not too much of it, just a little smooching and the like. What punishment should be meted out to the two young women who gave me a few moments of mostly innocent bliss? Cut short their career? Cut their heart out?

I tend to be somewhat thankful that the Constitution reins in our most extravagant fancies by banning cruel and unusual punishment. In the case of the castration of rapists and child molesters, I imagine it would not only be unconstitutional, but largely a waste of money. We have to think of something else, something that works. I don't belittle the problem. But I can't think of any constitutional solution that's guaranteed to work. And Mary Haze's solution, however attractive, would soon lead, I'm sure, to excesses and the deaths of innocent people who had the misfortune to be accused on no evidence.

[SaberGal]

Wow! Bloodthirsty words. I am particularly intrigued by the proposal of dire punishment for teachers who do something to or with their students. Can we narrow it down some? Are we talking about male teachers who have sex with female students? Who manhandle one or more female students? Who have affairs with willing female students?

And what punishments do we have in mind? If a girl in the senior class flirts with a male teacher until he responds by kissing her, is this going to be punishable by castration?

Long ago my sister was manhandled by the gym teacher (male), and no one in the family learned about it except me, a few years later, when we no longer lived in that town. I reacted strongly, but she insisted that she didn't want me to do anything.

Then there's the question of female teachers and willing male students who have achieved, let's say, the height of 5'11" or so, and the age of 17 or 18. To call all of these males victims goes too far, in my view. I'm speaking from experience. Not too much of it, just a little smooching and the like. What punishment should be meted out to the two young women who gave me a few moments of mostly innocent bliss? Cut short their career? Cut their heart out?

I tend to be somewhat thankful that the Constitution reins in our most extravagant fancies by banning cruel and unusual punishment. In the case of the castration of rapists and child molesters, I imagine it would not only be unconstitutional, but largely a waste of money. We have to think of something else, something that works. I don't belittle the problem. But I can't think of any constitutional solution that's guaranteed to work. And Mary Haze's solution, however attractive, would soon lead, I'm sure, to excesses and the deaths of innocent people who had the misfortune to be accused on no evidence.

Bravo, Smokey! I agree 100%!
And before I am viewed as someone who speaks without qualified experience on the issue, I was abused in this manner as a child.

You raise some very valid questions and concerns and managed to 'verbalize' perfectly my viewpoint. Thank you!

[texanne]

I don't care if a student is 7 ft. tall and weighs 400 lbs...they are a STUDENT. I don't care if the teacher is male, female, or half of each....they are a TEACHER. When they are hired by the school district, they are not hired to molest, seduce, or anything else sexual with a child. A 6 footer still has the undeveloped brain of a teenager. We have too many of these teachers who forget that they are the ADULT, and become molesters, child predators because something is missing in their brain. I wish we had a fool proof test to detect them ahead of time, but we do not. Until then, I just say open the jail doors, throw them in, and let them cool their heels for a long time. If someone is wanting a distinction between jail time and castration....let me think. Okay..if there is any physical force at all...castrate. No force, and an older student....then 20 years in prison would suit me. This teacher/molester thing is happening all the time, and perhaps the threat of being in prison for a long time will make them remember that they are there to educate the student....not troll for young partners. There was a time when my son was a teenager that one of his friends (well over 6 ft tall) got a crush on me and would show up when I was alone at the house. At no time did it ever cross my mind that I could cross the line with that boy....and I was not flattered by the attention. I kept the conversation on the same level as I would if the room was full of people, and gently ushered him out the door each time.

[SaberGal]

I absolutely agree that teachers are the adults and they alone are held accountable for their actions. However, I do see a huge difference between a 45 year old that molests or preys on children and a 22 year old that has a consensual relationship with a 16 year old. I just don't think the 22 year old in this situation would deserve to be on a registry the rest of their life, castrated, or sentenced to prison. Right now, it seems these 'offenders' are being lumped together.

There is also the issue of false accusations - which have been known to happen a time or two. Whether the accuser is doing it out of anger, revenge, or just mistaken....most times, with these types of crimes, often the only thing that matters is the seriousness of the charge. Look at the Duke players - people were ready to string them up until Nifong was exposed. IMO, the only reason Nifong didn't get away with it was because the accused players could afford a private and expensive defense team. Most who are wrongly accused are not as fortunate.

What happens if someone is castrated and then exonerated? It's bad enough that innocent people spend time in prison for something they didn't do. Permanently altering their bodies is just a bit too drastic for my taste.

JMHO

[texanne]

If they are not mature enough to realize they were hired to provide education to our kids, and not to have sex with them....then they need to find a job that does not place them in a classroom where we have entrusted them to act like adults. Perhaps teachers should have that extra little training before getting their license. The same laws apply to them that apply to all other adults. I give them no excuse...none. As to the false accusations...yes that is another thing. It is almost to the point that we need cameras in every classroom and hall to protect both the students AND the teachers. False accusations have ruined many lives.

[SaberGal]

If they are not mature enough to realize they were hired to provide education to our kids, and not to have sex with them....then they need to find a job that does not place them in a classroom where we have entrusted them to act like adults. Perhaps teachers should have that extra little training before getting their license. The same laws apply to them that apply to all other adults. I give them no excuse...none. As to the false accusations...yes that is another thing. It is almost to the point that we need cameras in every classroom and hall to protect both the students AND the teachers. False accusations have ruined many lives.

I don't dispute that teachers who cross the line should be held accountable. Never allowing them back in the classroom to teach would be where I would start. But I do think labeling people all together into one category is a mistake. Whether someone is a teacher or not, I do view a twenty something young adult who has a consensual relationship with an older teen quite differently than someone who preys on young children or forces himself (herself) on another person. In a nutshell, let the punishment fit the crime.

Like Smokey, I do appreciate the restraints set forth in the Constitution that prevent cruel and unusual punishment. It is another thing that sets the US apart from countries where the most extreme and barbaric punishments are still permitted and commonplace.

All, JMHO. :friends3:

[texanne]

I think the posters to this thread pretty much agree that there are levels to be considered in child rapist/molestors. Take the 19 yr. old boy who was caught having sex with a 15 yr. old girl...while he is stupid..he is not what I would consider a child molestor. I also doubt that any of the posters would want someone guilty of a lower degree of molestation to be castrated. When we talk about castration, we are mostly just venting against the predator monsters out there. But one thing for sure...I will not give any teacher a pass. When they cross the line, or allow it to be crossed , they are violating a trust. I really hope the teachers colleges, etc are throwing a little something in about that....warning them.

[PatC]

I agree that agreeing to castrate anyone convicted of a sex crime is, IMO, a knee jerk reaction. I'm reminded of the case that was in the news not long ago... I apologize for not recalling the details... but it was an older high school boy, IIRC he was a football star and had or was expecting scholarship offer(s) for college. He and his girlfriend who was 16---17 ??? had sex (for some reason I'm thinking it was reported as oral sex) and her parents found out and insisted on pushing for the boy's arrest and conviction of statutory rape. He was convicted and went to prison. WAAAY over punished IMO. Not to mention he's now labeled as a sex offender for the rest of his life.

I also know how easy it is in divorce/custody cases for one parent to accuse the other parent of sexual misconduct with the child(ren). Sometimes it's almost impossible to prove a negative.

On the other hand, in the case of a grown man who sexually molests a little child needs to be put away forever. I, too, have read enough articles that claim chemical castration is not a fail safe measure since, as someone posted earlier, the problem is in the mind, not the genitals.

However, I also believe there is NO cure. Given the right sexual offender category, I vote for Mary's solution... quick, clean, efficient, .... how much could a bullet cost anyway?

[nanabillie]

We had another teacher arrested within the last week. Her picture was on the news tonight. Not sure, but I think it was WSPA
http://www.thestate.com/local/story/692485.html?RSS=local

[Looking Far]

Totally agree.:zm10:

[texanne]

There is no excuse for a teacher ever crossing the line...no matter the age of the student, or their size. They betray a trust...and it is against the law. I am glad to see them prosecuted to the full extent of the law each and every time. They are there to provide education to the kids, not use their postion to troll for young sexual partners.

[nicky]

Although I don't have a problem with castration, I sincerely doubt that it would prove to be an effective solution to child molesters or rapists. Have there not been studies that child molestion is really not about sex but more about the power one has over another? Would these same people now use a subsitute item for penetration? How well did the chemical castration work for those who had to be medicated?

I agree with you Firehead. It's about the power! Frankly I'd like to see a law put into affect that would give the death penalty to repeat sexual offenders whose victims are all ages!

[LiveLaughLuv]

When it comes to a pervert who preys on our children, I have no problem with castration. I do have some questions about the effectiveness of it, however. I remember reading on another forum some time back that it gives a sense of false security because the pervert has a sick mind. They may still have a mental desire to harm children. I do not know how true that is, because sometimes the links posted to support such arguments are not really reliable.

Although I don't have a problem with castration, I sincerely doubt that it would prove to be an effective solution to child molesters or rapists. Have there not been studies that child molestion is really not about sex but more about the power one has over another? Would these same people now use a subsitute item for penetration? How well did the chemical castration work for those who had to be medicated?


I agree with both statements.

Just because a SO is surgically castrated that will not make his appetite for offending go away. It is much more a mental disease and can use other means to penetrate anyone. It isn't about the sex but more about domination, control and violence.

It's an impluse that comes from the mind, not the said penis.. Just because you remove the penis doesn't mean you won't find other means/ways to assault someone.

No. I don't think this is a very useful method. I don't think there are any sure fired ways other than to lock the SOB up and keep him away from civilization.

[emmeblu]

I'd personally like to see results where this has been carried out in other states. What are those results? I'm just not sure this would solve the problem of repeat offenders.

I do agree that something drastic needs to be done with these perverts. Maybe when a child is involved just hand the perp over to the child's parents for punishment. Why not let the adult victim name the punishment?

I just have no mercy for these twisted souls. None!

[Mrs Robinson]

well, i suppose (mumble) if we have to (grumble)...... i'd rather just kill them & be done with it tho.Well your suggestion would end recidivism. This castration may sound good but you turn loose a sex offender minus a few cherished body parts and he's gonna be plenty angry and maybe this time instead of rape he will kill and then what do you do to the women sex offenders, hysterectomy or disfigure their face so they're frightening to look at? I think death or life without the possibility of parole are all that would work.

[texanne]

I just wish we had some way of identifying "broken" people when they were small children so we could fix them before they are old enough to prey on others.

[sablegsd]

I just wish we had some way of identifying "broken" people when they were small children so we could fix them before they are old enough to prey on others.

I don't believe they can be fixed.

[WarmNCozy]

I think if enough men are castrated as soon as they are found guilty, it might deter other's from commenting rapes. I don't want them to have chemical castration, either.
I would actuarially like to see Lorena Bobbit hired and let her perform he type surgery on them. I think a lot of men would think twice if they thought that is what would happen to them if they were caught. If Lorena is busy, just pay for my flight.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff305/CozyNWarm/Funny/doglaugh.gif

[Boscorelli]

While I totally agree with and in favor of CASTRATION for all men found guilty of child molestation/rape;this problem starts in the home;when children see the parents fighting,verbally abuseing each other;along with drugs and alcoholism.
When parents destroy a child's childood,they sow the seeds of destruction,in the mind of a child;when this behavior goes unchecked,the child becomes a troubled teenager etc.
This is why the NEBRASKA LAW and orphanages must be in every STATE.
Another FACT that can not be disputed is;we as a nation permit Evil & Immorality as 'acceptable'.The crime rate is riseing and the age of the crimminal is lowering.

:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

[LiveLaughLuv]

Prisoners opt for procedure

Like Smith, who served no time for the earlier offense, other sex predators are opting for castration to avoid or lessen a prison sentence. Last year, a 25-year-old pedophile avoided prison time for sexual offenses on two young girls after a different Florida judge ordered him to take chemical castration treatments for life. And in California, the first state to mandate castration for some sex offenders, at least 15 inmates have asked to undergo castration in the hope that it would increase their chances of being set free.

There's something wrong with this picture.

While lawmakers in a growing number of states are enacting legislation to mandate castration for sex offenders, a surprising number of sexual predators are clamoring to undergo this procedure. The politicians are driven, no doubt, by the public's gnawing fear of crime, even as crime rates nationally are declining. But what is it that pushes sexual predators to want to give up their virility? I suspect it's that they understand better than the rest of us that rape and most other sexual offenses have little to due with sex — and more to do with physical domination.

Castration isn't likely to stop a sex offender from preying on people. It will only change the way these predators go about their crimes. As Florida prosecutor Jerry Burford told the St. Petersburg Times: "I get a lot of people who are impotent that still commit sexual battery. It's not their gonads that cause them to commit sexual battery. It's their heads."

A better alternative

Instead of dumping such sexual predators into prison for long periods of time or forcing them to undergo chemical castration, judges should commit them to high-security mental facilities where they can get psychiatric help in combination with drugs to reduce their sex drives. While chemical castration can turn off a predator's physical urges for a time, psychological counseling is needed to suppress the mental addiction that drives their deviant behavior.

But don't expect this to happen. For most politicians, the financial cost of such a fix is too great and the political return is too small. Most people care little about what happens to criminals once they are locked away. While taking sexual predators off the streets is an obsession of many folks, few people care about the criminals' need for psychiatric therapy.

Without such help, sexual predators are doomed to repeat their crimes. Lawmakers who think that castration alone will change this outcome are fooling themselves — and the people who put them in office.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnists/wickham/2001-09-04-wickham.htm

[nanabillie]

From what I have read rape is not necessarily a sex crime, rather a control issue. If so, then castration would only help part of the problem. I am still in favor of castration of all of them.

[lost indie]

While I totally agree with and in favor of CASTRATION for all men found guilty of child molestation/rape;this problem starts in the home;when children see the parents fighting,verbally abuseing each other;along with drugs and alcoholism.
When parents destroy a child's childood,they sow the seeds of destruction,in the mind of a child;when this behavior goes unchecked,the child becomes a troubled teenager etc.
This is why the NEBRASKA LAW and orphanages must be in every STATE.
Another FACT that can not be disputed is;we as a nation permit Evil & Immorality as 'acceptable'.The crime rate is riseing and the age of the crimminal is lowering.

:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

I am so delighted that you CHOSE to never become a parent. Thank you from the bottom of my heart...

:smile:

I am sorry for whatever happened in your life to make you so bitter toward families...

[lost indie]

Castration would do very little to stop rape or molestation. It isn't about sex...it's about power. It's about control. Melissa Huckaby is charged with the rape of Sandra Cantu. I would guess that MH has no penis and did not use it in the rape. I would guess it was an object. Even castrated men have access to objects. Even a castrated man could use such an object to rape or molest. A better determent would be a lobotomy. The main sexual organ is the brain.

Or better yet we should do away with all the "defectives" like they did in Nazi Germany. Or maybe we should waterboard them until they lose their minds.

I would hope we are better than that...

imo

[FoolsGold]

If the bill passes...It won't. Its a public relations measure. Good press. Particularly good at re-election time.

[LiveLaughLuv]

Castration would do very little to stop rape or molestation. It isn't about sex...it's about power. It's about control. Melissa Huckaby is charged with the rape of Sandra Cantu. I would guess that MH has no penis and did not use it in the rape. I would guess it was an object. Even castrated men have access to objects. Even a castrated man could use such an object to rape or molest. A better determent would be a lobotomy. The main sexual organ is the brain.

Or better yet we should do away with all the "defectives" like they did in Nazi Germany. Or maybe we should waterboard them until they lose their minds.

I would hope we are better than that...

imo

Exactly LostIndie. One could be castrated but the brain is still functioning. It's not the act itself, it's the dominance, control, humiliation that is the driving force.

One doesn't need a penis to finalize their act, any object will do. :frustratedf:

Perhaps a regimen of salpeter along with huge doses of psychological, intensive therapy for many, many years may help that cause but castration alone will not help!

[Mrs Robinson]

Exactly LostIndie. One could be castrated but the brain is still functioning. It's not the act itself, it's the dominance, control, humiliation that is the driving force.

One doesn't need a penis to finalize their act, any object will do. :frustratedf:

Perhaps a regimen of salpeter along with huge doses of psychological, intensive therapy for many, many years may help that cause but castration alone will not help!
I doubt huge doses of psychological, intensive therapy for many, many years would help either. My suggestion would be if the lowlife offends again the shrink who recommended his/her release would serve the same sentence along side the perp.

[LiveLaughLuv]

I doubt huge doses of psychological, intensive therapy for many, many years would help either. My suggestion would be if the lowlife offends again the shrink who recommended his/her release would serve the same sentence along side the perp.


This needs to be done while they are incarcerated as part of their prison sentences. Chemical castration along with therapy.

If they can't pass the requirements they should never leave prison....

I say to develop an island and put them all out there surrounded by sharks. Call it Sex Offenders Isle...You want to leave the island, you have the sharks to eat them up alive...:madranting94dp:

They will never hurt another again, my way....:cool:

[Boscorelli]

Upon conviction of rape the sex offender should be castrated immediately with a sentence of LWOP.I would also do away with Parole.
Let the convicted defendant serve out the entire sentence: 10 20 25 years Example
Phil Spector will be sentenced to 18 years,on May 29,2009. He is 69;he will be 90 when he could be released.Boscorelli

[WarmNCozy]

This needs to be done while they are incarcerated as part of their prison sentences. Chemical castration along with therapy.

If they can't pass the requirements they should never leave prison....

I say to develop an island and put them all out there surrounded by sharks. Call it Sex Offenders Isle...You want to leave the island, you have the sharks to eat them up alive...:madranting94dp:

They will never hurt another again, my way....:cool:

I totally agree LLL, they can offend each other and then let the sharks have a go at them.

[Oceanblueeyes]

I'd personally like to see results where this has been carried out in other states. What are those results? I'm just not sure this would solve the problem of repeat offenders.

I do agree that something drastic needs to be done with these perverts. Maybe when a child is involved just hand the perp over to the child's parents for punishment. Why not let the adult victim name the punishment?

I just have no mercy for these twisted souls. None!

I don't think castration is the answer. The perverted and twisted thoughts come from the vile mind and as of yet, they aren't considering taking out their brains. They would just use other foreign objects to rape/sodomize and torture their victims. They would still brutalize victims maybe even in more heinous ways, if that is possible with these POSs.

Best thing is to keep them locked up like they have the plague.....which what they have is worse, imo.



imoo

[sablegsd]

Nothing will change these creeps. They must die.

[Boscorelli]

Good morning Oceanblueeyes
Castration would solve the problem to a certain extent; we are of the 'same mind' when it comes to these perverted vile minded men.Lock them away and hopefully they die in prison.
JMHO people today refuse to see the evil of immorality that has become a pattern in the fabric of society.:45024:
Recently the movie "PSYCHO" starring Anthony Perkins was on TCM.Norman Bates' twisted perverted mind,because he found his mother having sex with a man;then murdered his mother and kept her corpus.
This was the first movie of it's kind;to bring the reality of what goes on in a family that plants the seeds of destruction in a person's mind.
The crimes of rape/murder are even far more gruesome,in today's world;than the 'shower scene' in the movie;that seems almost tame.
Rape is an act of control.;when he can not achieve a successful relationship with a woman.He over powers her,then murders .
Take care my friend:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

[Mrs Robinson]

Upon conviction of rape the sex offender should be castrated immediately with a sentence of LWOP.I would also do away with Parole.
Let the convicted defendant serve out the entire sentence: 10 20 25 years Example
Phil Spector will be sentenced to 18 years,on May 29,2009. He is 69;he will be 90 when he could be released.Boscorelli
If s/he received LWOP then why castration and if a female would you demand an immediate hysterectomy?

[lost indie]

Good morning Oceanblueeyes
Castration would solve the problem to a certain extent; we are of the 'same mind' when it comes to these perverted vile minded men.Lock them away and hopefully they die in prison.
JMHO people today refuse to see the evil of immorality that has become a pattern in the fabric of society.:45024:
Recently the movie "PSYCHO" starring Anthony Perkins was on TCM.Norman Bates' twisted perverted mind,because he found his mother having sex with a man;then murdered his mother and kept her corpus.
This was the first movie of it's kind;to bring the reality of what goes on in a family that plants the seeds of destruction in a person's mind.
The crimes of rape/murder are even far more gruesome,in today's world;than the 'shower scene' in the movie;that seems almost tame.
Rape is an act of control.;when he can not achieve a successful relationship with a woman.He over powers her,then murders .
Take care my friend:mornincoffee: Boscorelli


I've seen PSYCHO several times. His mother had sex with a man and he killed her because of it? I don't remember it that way. What man? When?

[Roamer]

My memory sucks these days, but I don't remember that, either.

[Oceanblueeyes]

I just wish we had some way of identifying "broken" people when they were small children so we could fix them before they are old enough to prey on others.

I don't think most of them were broken as children. Most sex offenders weren't abused as children, both men and women. Only 15% of male sex offenders were abused and only 15-25% of female sex offenders were abused as children.

So it isn't about their past abuse imo. If that were the case since we have millions of boys and girls sexually abused in this country there would be an epidemic of monumental proportion.

It is in their twisted sick minds imo. This is the adult life they choose to have. It is their sexual lust, desires and fantasies that they act out on against vulnerable little children. With an adult rapist it is more about power and control but the sexual predator gets much pleasure in raping, sodomizing and torturing a child. It is much more about perverted desires, imo.

IMO

[Oceanblueeyes]

Good morning Oceanblueeyes
Castration would solve the problem to a certain extent; we are of the 'same mind' when it comes to these perverted vile minded men.Lock them away and hopefully they die in prison.
JMHO people today refuse to see the evil of immorality that has become a pattern in the fabric of society.:45024:
Recently the movie "PSYCHO" starring Anthony Perkins was on TCM.Norman Bates' twisted perverted mind,because he found his mother having sex with a man;then murdered his mother and kept her corpus.
This was the first movie of it's kind;to bring the reality of what goes on in a family that plants the seeds of destruction in a person's mind.
The crimes of rape/murder are even far more gruesome,in today's world;than the 'shower scene' in the movie;that seems almost tame.
Rape is an act of control.;when he can not achieve a successful relationship with a woman.He over powers her,then murders .
Take care my friend:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

Hi there Bosco. Nice to see you again.

As you know I do not just include one gender when it comes to criminal acts like these. I believe we do a great disservice to our victimized children by doing so. It isn't just men who are disgusting, depraved, wicked and vile, by a long shot, however male pedophiles get much harsher punishments than female sexual predators the vast majority of the time. So imo, people tend to see a female as more trusting and they are allowed to be around children without their trustworthiness being questioned, which by doing so we inadvertently have given them the tools to prey upon their targeted victims. When I say "we", I mean "we" as in general terms, not anyone specific.

I have learned much since the Sandra Cantu case and what I have read is sickening and perverse. Imo this has been one of our dirty dark held secrets. So much attention has been put only on the male predator that the female predator has been able to abuse children without being questioned. I hope Sandra's case puts a light on a problem that had not made its way to the light before now but needs to for all of our children to be safe and secure away from sexual predators regardless of the gender of the pedophile.

Actually rape is about control and power but when it comes to pedophilia, both males and females it is all about the sexual pleasure it brings by raping/sodomizing and torturing a vulnerable little child, imo. Pedophiles are unlike regular rapists who picks adult victims, imo.

Here is an excerpt of one very fascinating link I have read.
http://www.momlogic.com/2009/04/female_sex_offenders.php

A 2007 report by the Center for Sex Offender Management says that one half of sex offender therapy programs provide services to females. Approximately 3,800 adult women and 2,700 adolescent girl offenders were receiving sex offender therapy services in 2007 -- a number that's nearly twice the number of those served in these programs two years prior.

4 to 8% of reported cases of sex abuse were perpetrated by women. An estimated 1.6 million men and 1.5 million women were sexually abused by women when they were children, and among male offenders convicted and sentenced sexual abuse crimes, 24.6% of them were sexually abused by women.

***************

I also read another article that stated that a male that has been sexually abused is 10 times more likely to contemplate suicide. The reason given is most males do not report their rapes or sexual abuse or have anyone they can feel comfortable talking with. Often in our society they aren't seen as victims at all if abused by a woman and they are supposed to consider themselves lucky. This is what society promotes and when the abused male doesn't feel like he was lucky... the male victim thinks there must be something wrong with him if he feels violated and victimized. So when they are raped and molested by a female they don't report. Who is going to believe them anyway? Who is going to think they are really a victim? As of now even the courts don't support these sexually abused boys if their abuser was a female.

To me, I don't give a flip what the pedophile's gender happens to be.......both are at the bottom of the cesspool imo, and a danger to both our boys and girls. Anyone who sexually preys on the innocent deserves to be locked away for life to protect other children from crossing their paths.

I still don't think anything will stop them, except maybe locking them up for life. They are what they are and they will always have that urge to destroy little children's lives.

JMO though

[Boscorelli]

Oh YES Mrs. Robinson, I would want to see a female sex offender have a total hysterectomy;Sex Offender,male & female deserve the same PUNISHMENT JMHO.
Boscorelli

[texanne]

Oceanblueeyes: I did not suggest that these offenders were "broken" by being molested when they were children....although we know that has happened in many cases. There are many things that can damage the mind of a child....many, many things. I was simply saying that I wish we had a better way of identifying "broken" people when they were children so we could deal with the problem then instead of being faced with the horror of what they can do as adults. We have all known people who should never have become parents because of what they do to their children....or how they ignore a child's problems. A baby is not born a murderer, rapist, terrorists, liar, etc. Something happens along the way.....and society has yet to learn how to deal with that.

[Oceanblueeyes]

Oceanblueeyes: I did not suggest that these offenders were "broken" by being molested when they were children....although we know that has happened in many cases. There are many things that can damage the mind of a child....many, many things. I was simply saying that I wish we had a better way of identifying "broken" people when they were children so we could deal with the problem then instead of being faced with the horror of what they can do as adults. We have all known people who should never have become parents because of what they do to their children....or how they ignore a child's problems. A baby is not born a murderer, rapist, terrorists, liar, etc. Something happens along the way.....and society has yet to learn how to deal with that.

I knew what you meant texanne and I understand your sentiments completely. But I am not sure something has to happen to them as children to make them become rapists, murderer or terrorist or whatever.

Since the vast majority of them aren't abused as children I am not sure what makes them prey on victims when they become adults. I just think it is more simple than that and it is how each of these individuals perceives things and with pedophiles it is their sexual deviant desires that spurs them. Most all of them do this for their own sexual pleasure disregarding the child's feelings. May be that kiddie porn makes billions a year internationally but I think they have to have a preconceived desire to even be able to look at those horrible despicable and reprehensible acts against vulnerable helpless children. When they began to fantasize about this I don't think really any of us knows. So I am not sure we can pin down a cause and effect, why criminals become criminals. We have tried to do so for decades but we only learn the profile after the crime has been committed so it isn't really helping any beforehand.

With homegrown terrorist I think it is usually a rage against our government and these terrorist are extremist. The international terrorists like Al Qaeda or the Talliban do as they have been taught to believe and do it because they think that Allah will bless them for killing what they perceive are the infidels.

So I am not sure what we can do to be forewarned about who will be predators, murderers or terrorists as they grow up.

Most in our society know that it is horribly wrong to murder, rape or become a pedophile, however, since the beginning of time there has been those who have crossed that line. They come from all facets of life. They can be poor, uneducated or they can be extremely educated and have lived a privileged life or anywhere in between. There seems to be no rhyme or reason so that we can detect who will strike and who will not.

I, like you though, do wish we could stop them from happening beforehand but I really don't think that is realistically going to happen. They will always be people who did these type of crimes.

imo

[Boscorelli]

Good Morning to both Occeanblueeyes & Texanne
A new born baby comes into this world 'INNOCENT";but people have a sin nature= a strong desire towards evil.Examples:
1. People have a strong curious desire,to read talk about another person,failed marriages,adultery etc.rather than a person's good points.
2. SEX SELLS movies tv dvd's;the more tittillating,sexual explicit,the more a person wants to watch.
3.Anna Nicole Smith,exploited sex and drugs and craved fame;at any and all cost. She would never 'peaked' our on going interest,if she were a good woman.
JMHO children pick up and home into their parent's mind set.Parents either forget or couldn't careless about the bad role models they show to their children.These parents then can't understand why their children behave the way the do.
JMHO All people are tempted to sin= inticement towards evil against what is good. A temptation is not a sin; temptation becomes a sin;when a person gives into desire to do something;that they know is wrong.
JMHO WE are all pressured from the numerous 'voices' telling us how and why we should follow their way of doing things. Example : to be 'politically correct' one must condone every type of immorality that is offered.:45024: Example:
People now boast about divorce,adulterous affairs,abortions etc.brag about how they got away with this that or the other;without looking at the consequences that will affect them in the present and well into the future;as well as the lives of other people.:
When children see their favorite sports celebrities,getting away with crime and drug use/abuse;these are the 'blurred messages' that children as well as adults 'lock into' and their behavior is molded.:0devil:
WE make choices and choices have consequences attached to them
:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

[texanne]

Good morning, Boscorelli. I get depressed over what is offered up as entertainment to our young. So many people seem to think it is the kids that are "going to the dogs". If they will pay closer attention to what those same children are subjected to day in and day out, they might have a clue as to why the kids have such a casual attitude toward violence, drugs, and sex. All we can do is to try to instill better values in the young around us, and remember to be a better example. Honor and integrity should not be just words. So many times I ask my grandsons...."but is that the HONORABLE thing to do?" I do want to say that I do not find today's youth to be less moral than past generations. I can remember when being a racist was very common. I can remember when beating a child with a belt was normal. I can remember when cruelty to animals was legal. Our problem is that we threw out the baby with the bath water (if you know what I mean).

[Oceanblueeyes]

Good Morning to both Occeanblueeyes & Texanne
A new born baby comes into this world 'INNOCENT";but people have a sin nature= a strong desire towards evil.Examples:
1. People have a strong curious desire,to read talk about another person,failed marriages,adultery etc.rather than a person's good points.
2. SEX SELLS movies tv dvd's;the more titillating,sexual explicit,the more a person wants to watch.
3.Anna Nicole Smith,exploited sex and drugs and craved fame;at any and all cost. She would never 'peaked' our on going interest,if she were a good woman.
JMHO children pick up and home into their parent's mind set.Parents either forget or couldn't careless about the bad role models they show to their children.These parents then can't understand why their children behave the way the do.
JMHO All people are tempted to sin= inticement towards evil against what is good. A temptation is not a sin; temptation becomes a sin;when a person gives into desire to do something;that they know is wrong.
JMHO WE are all pressured from the numerous 'voices' telling us how and why we should follow their way of doing things. Example : to be 'politically correct' one must condone every type of immorality that is offered.:45024: Example:
People now boast about divorce,adulterous affairs,abortions etc.brag about how they got away with this that or the other;without looking at the consequences that will affect them in the present and well into the future;as well as the lives of other people.:
When children see their favorite sports celebrities,getting away with crime and drug use/abuse;these are the 'blurred messages' that children as well as adults 'lock into' and their behavior is molded.:0devil:
WE make choices and choices have consequences attached to them
:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

I am not sure we can lump all children into one group even though I do agree we do have all of the rampant problems in our country that you have listed.

Millions of children may go through the same environment as other children, such as millions upon millions who play violent video games, millions who follow the Hollywood starlets and all of their immoralities or millions of children that have lived abusive lives themselves or have had inattentive and uncaring parents. Having good parents doesn't prevent a child from becoming a very bad person, just like all bad parents don't produce children who turnout to be a problem for our justice system.

Really most of society's children, even though they may be just as knowledgeable about sex or subjected to the same things, don't go on to be rapists/murderers, terrorists or criminals of any kind.

It is like you said imo, this is the choice they willing made when they became adults. And imo the stats really backs that up. Out of 300 million people in our country the vast majority are not criminals. So that is why I believe there really is no predictors to tell us who will become criminals and who will not.

imoo

[texanne]

There are more good things about children today....far more good things...than negative things. I spend a LOT of time with kids. They are wonderful. They are full of promise, and willing to roll up their sleeves and work for their community when asked. They are more honest than adults. All they ask is a fair shot and guidance...and we owe them that.

[Boscorelli]

Good Morning Oceanblueeyes
I enjoyed reading your post:smile:Absolutely there are numerous children who grow up in homes with dysfunctional parents and who avoid getting into trouble.Then there are numerous children who live in stable family homes and become violent crimminals EXAMPLE
IOWA vs Sarah Johnson murder case. 1995 or later. Johnson was 16 years old,when she took a shot gun,blasting a hole in her mother's head. Her father came out of the shower,to see his daughter point a shot gun at him and shoot. Sarah was the 'little princess' and the apple of her father's eye'.
She was dateing a guy her parents didn't approve of. The guy was in this country illegally and selling drugs. The parents were going to bring the BF up on 'statuary rape charges' reason for the murder.
The boyfriend becomes a prosecution witness against Sarah Johnson;and all drug charges/rape charges would be dropped;as a condition for his cooperation/testimony.The trial lasted a month and she was convicted of 2 counts of first-degree murder;sentenced to LWOP.
There is no 'litmus test' to say who or who not will become a murderer/rapist etc. Sometimes it is fear/as well as the fear of being in prison;that stops a person from committing a crime.
Then there are people who are so sociopathic,they don't care of what the consequences are and who may get hurt.
JMHO people crave attention,because they have been overlooked,by family,teachers,employers/ees;so they act out their aggression/hostility.
The 'rootcause' is our sin nature;we all are tempted in one way or another.What may deeply affect one person;will not have the same affect on another person;placed in the same set of circumstances.
How well we discipline ourselves,or the lack there of;speaks volumes of who we are=charactor.
Have a great day my friend,take care stay well:howdy: Boscorelli

[Big Ben]

I think its a good law,would like to see the age starting at 18.Being a father of 2 boys/4 girls 8 grandchildren ,if some slime would ever rape one of my family ,the state could save $$$ for i would castrate the #$^&&*(^

[Boscorelli]

Good Morning BigBen
I think 'castration' and a total hysterectomy for females who rape and molest is justified.This 'pyschological crap';that they can't help themselves MHO is a direct result of how a defense attorney will 'twist' a fact.
I prefer a bench trial = no jury,over a jury of 12 people and 4 alternates. Brandan Craig case.
On Memorial Day weekend 1999,Brandon Craig gunned down 4 teenagers with a AK-47.Kevin Shirley,16 and 3 other teens.Shirley owed Craig,aged 20 $500.00 drug money.The case went cold for 10 years,untill 3 eye witnesses spoke to prosecutors.Each had pending related crimminal charges,involved with drugs.
The prosecutor cut a 'sweetheart deal' with all 3 prosecution witnesses who stated they saw Brandon Craig shoot all 3 victums.Two of the three pros. witnesses had made inconsistant statements and lied about their involvement in several pre-trial interviews.
The defense attorney was able to get a jury to a not guilty verdict,based on reasonable doubt. Brandon Craig a murderer is free today as we speak;because a jury was taken in by a slick smooth talking defense attorney.
The first Phil Spector trial jury hung 10 to 12 in favor of conviction for the murder of Lana Clarkson.Just recently Spector was finally convicted and will be formly sentenced May 29th to 18 years.He is 69 years old.
O.J. Simpson murdered his wife Nicole and Ron Goldman.It was the first DNA case to become the 'standard ' in all crimminal cases.It was Simpson's celebrity that a jury let him 'walk; but late in 2008 Simpson is now doing 7 and a half years on a robbery charge.
Last week on an IN SESSIONS program,COURTSIDE with Jack Ford/Ashleigh Banfield,these co-hosts were discussing the fact that many jurors,'google' or go on line,watch TV about the cases they are sitting on;violating a court order.
JMHO a bench trial is far more legally affective and far less expensive. Prosecution/defense attorneys can argue without the 'side bar' or discussing a matter outside the jury's presence.Upon the completion of closeing arguements,the judge can render a just verdict,based on evidence;not the emotions of a jury.
Again JMHO if the Brandon Craig trial hads been a bench trial,Craig would been convicted.
:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

[nanabillie]

I don't see how a total hysterectomy will help anything except keep her from procreating. It does not stop the sex drive if that had anything to do with the crime to start with. If it is all about control, it sure won't help that, either. I don't kow what the answer would be. For men, I think castration would be punishment. For women, a hysterectomy will be an answer to prayer. Not to all, but I would think, most.

[Alibar]

I don't see how a total hysterectomy will help anything except keep her from procreating. It does not stop the sex drive if that had anything to do with the crime to start with. If it is all about control, it sure won't help that, either. I don't kow what the answer would be. For men, I think castration would be punishment. For women, a hysterectomy will be an answer to prayer. Not to all, but I would think, most.

I agree, Billie. A total hysterectomy has little to do with a woman's sexual urges. A clitorectomy might halt some desires, but, not necessarily. The desire could easily still be present, although, she might not be able to enjoy the end result, but, I don't think it would stop her from trying. A plus is that women are far less likely to abuse.

[Oceanblueeyes]

I agree, Billie. A total hysterectomy has little to do with a woman's sexual urges. A clitorectomy might halt some desires, but, not necessarily. The desire could easily still be present, although, she might not be able to enjoy the end result, but, I don't think it would stop her from trying. A plus is that women are far less likely to abuse.

I do agree with most of what you say. I don't really think there is a sure way to stop male or female pedophiles or rapists.

However I am not sure I really believe that women are far less likely to sexually abuse. I do think they are far less likely to be caught or reported. I think the stats are highly skewed due to under reporting and victims not being believed.

imo

[nanabillie]

I wrote my opinion twiice and erased it. What do I know about it? Nothing.

[nanabillie]

I did think of one thing, women might be More prone to abuse males if they had a hysterectomy. They wouldn't be concerned with getting pregnant. Not that getting pregnant is foremost in their minds to start with.

[PatC]

From what I've read, any instance of forcibly having sex with an unwilling partner, is more about control and a desire for domination than sex drive. That's why the chemical castration has proven more effective than surgical. I can't speak for men but I do know that a hysterectomy does not eliminate the sex drive in a woman. I believe I've even read that the primary sex organ may well turn out to be the brain.

[awakening2lite]

I do agree with most of what you say. I don't really think there is a sure way to stop male or female pedophiles or rapists.

However I am not sure I really believe that women are far less likely to sexually abuse. I do think they are far less likely to be caught or reported. I think the stats are highly skewed due to under reporting and victims not being believed.

imo

I completely agree.

I think we are housing the molesters in the wrong place. They are not curable, and as such, there should be facilities admitting only molesters and keeping them for the entirety of their natural lives.

[texanne]

Keeping them behind bars is certainly the only surefire way.

[Alibar]

Would be nice if that were typical, but, unfortunately, some of them have to kill before it happens. Our courts are afraid of hurting their feelings. (((((

I do think there are plenty of women who molest and I don't necessarily mean they touch their victim. I've read of mothers who molest by seduction. Exposing themselves to their children. Just because someone molests doesn't mean actual physical contact is the aim. There is a dearth of information about women who molest. In many ways it is a taboo subject. The recent murder of the young girl by that 29 year old women was so shocking to everyone. I hope it doesn't begin to happen so often that it is no longer a surprise.

[awakening2lite]

Would be nice if that were typical, but, unfortunately, some of them have to kill before it happens. Our courts are afraid of hurting their feelings. (((((

I do think there are plenty of women who molest and I don't necessarily mean they touch their victim. I've read of mothers who molest by seduction. Exposing themselves to their children. Just because someone molests doesn't mean actual physical contact is the aim. There is a dearth of information about women who molest. In many ways it is a taboo subject. The recent murder of the young girl by that 29 year old women was so shocking to everyone. I hope it doesn't begin to happen so often that it is no longer a surprise.


It's truly disgusting, Alibar. I think what you describe would be a lewd act, a minor offense because it did not involve touching.

While on the subject of touching I may as well voice my disgust in it being acceptable for performers to tickle their private parts on stage, or choose to demonstate their talent by emulating dogs humping an invisible leg. It is sad to see their music or dancing skills cannot stand on thier own merit, but must be subsidized with actions that, in another setting, would be lewd acts. This seems to be viewed as only bad taste in the performer and the audience that enjoys it, but is it only that?

If we are the guardians of the now, shouldn't we be providing better for the world's children?

IMO

[Oceanblueeyes]

Would be nice if that were typical, but, unfortunately, some of them have to kill before it happens. Our courts are afraid of hurting their feelings. (((((

I do think there are plenty of women who molest and I don't necessarily mean they touch their victim. I've read of mothers who molest by seduction. Exposing themselves to their children. Just because someone molests doesn't mean actual physical contact is the aim. There is a dearth of information about women who molest. In many ways it is a taboo subject. The recent murder of the young girl by that 29 year old women was so shocking to everyone. I hope it doesn't begin to happen so often that it is no longer a surprise.

I have recently read some of the articles about women pedophiles and frankly what I have read scares me to death. While male predators often use their penis or sex toys a women pedophile can be very violent and vicious as well and loves to inflict pain when raping her victim by thrusting foreign objects into them.

I think for some reason society thinks a female pedophile must be needy and wanting to feel loved (yuck) or show love (yuck) but IMO their deep seeded desire is totally about sexual desire and control just like the males. They too select their victims, they too select those who are vulnerable and cannot fight back or who they know will keep their secrets.

I truly don't think it is all that unusual. There have been cases since the Cantu case exposing female predators and female child porn rings.

I feel they are out there in droves under the guise of a doting female. All I can hope for is maybe just maybe now that some of them are coming to light that LE will take its blinders off too.

So I don't think castration is the answer. The problem lies within their evil brain not the other end that is just one of the tools they use. If that is gone then they will find other things to inflict horrible rapes on the most defenseless in our nation.

imo