View Full Version : Transcripts
NANCY GRACE
La Toya Claims Michael Was Murdered
Aired July 13, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon, Michael Jackson. It intensifies as questions mount on his sudden death, his half-a-billion-dollar empire, and more important, custody of the star`s three little children.
Bombshell tonight. Murder charges in the death of Jackson, Jackson`s family publicly revealing their claim music icon Michael Jackson was murdered. And tonight: Has Jackson`s embalmed body been secretly moved during the night? The body`s exact location still shrouded in mystery, this as sources claim a secret custody deal in the works. But is that deal in the best interests of Jackson`s three children? We learn bio mom Debbie Rowe agrees not to fight for custody. But what`s the pay-off?
And in a stunning twist, father Joe Jackson reportedly set to force Jackson`s children on the stage under the name the Jackson 3, sending them on the road for a world tour next year. This after Jackson revealing physical abuse, beatings at the hand of his own father, Joe Jackson, always keeping his own three children far, far away. Father Joe also says he himself will raise Jackson`s children and now put them on the stage. Has Jackson`s worst nightmare come true?
Also, after we learn Jackson`s body kept hidden at the family crypt of Motown founder Berry Gordy, many question how do you lose a gold-bedecked "Promethean" casket? With 20 helicopters hovering and thousands watching, the casket exits an arena. Was the body ever in the casket, or was it smuggled out through a secret underground tunnel to an unmarked van while fans mob a black hearse seemingly bearing the body? We confirm a portion of Jackson`s brain missing from the body, withheld for testing.
Jackson family infighting boils over, father Joe and the Jackson brothers pushing ahead with burial in the back yard of Neverland for a Graceland-like Michael Jackson burial theme park. A second autopsy discovered four fresh needle tracks in Jackson`s neck -- that`s right, his neck -- other veins riddled with track marks, many actually collapsing from IV use, Jackson`s skin paper white, white as a T-shirt, his bald head matching, his body emaciated, all in direct contrast to private video of a full dress rehearsal just hours before the death.
Drugs found in the home, drugs banned for consumer use, only found behind locked doors in the operating room. Jackson reportedly ingesting up to 10,000 pills in just six months, including a reported 40 Xanax a night. The LAPD chief mulling criminal charges. Who drugged an addict who happened to be a superstar? As vultures circle Jackson`s dead body, the fate of his three children unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a gentleman here that needs help, and he`s not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alarming new accusations coming from Michael Jackson`s own sister, saying he was murdered and his death was a conspiracy. Two British newspapers quote La Toya as saying she believes a shadowy entourage gave her brother drugs that led to his tragic death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some very prominent members of the Jackson family, including La Toya, are going very public with their belief Michael Jackson`s death had some foul play involved. La Toya Jackson never mentioned who she thought was behind Michael Jackson`s death. She implied to another newspaper that the family knows the results of the second private autopsy for Michael Jackson, the one that they ordered. And she says, quote, "I think everyone will be surprised when the results come out."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debbie, are you ready to fight for your kids, Debbie?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jackson`s ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, and his mom, Katherine, are working behind closed doors on a secret custody deal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
DEBBIE ROWE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S EX-WIFE: Do not touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody touched you here.
ROWE; You just did! Don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I spoke with a friend of Debbie Rowe`s, and he told me that he fully expects Debbie Rowe to go for custody. He said the fact that Joe Jackson, Michael Jackson`s father, is talking about helping raise the children is really a problem for her, since Michael Jackson had a terrible relationship with his father.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: We`re the parents, and we got other kids of their size. They love those kids. And we love those kids, too. We`re going to take care of them and give them the education they`re supposed to have. We can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
<snipped>
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson intensifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON: I have a lot of concerns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) concerns.
JOE JACKSON: I can`t get into that. I don`t like what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Jackson had voiced suspicion previously, in the days just after Michael`s death. Jackson`s sister, La Toya, is going even further than her father, telling two British newspapers that she believes Michael Jackson was murdered. La Toya Jackson told "The Daily Mail" her brother was worth more than a billion dollars and said, quote, "He was surrounded by people who didn`t have his best interests at heart," and "He was worth more dead than alive."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Are you ready to get your butt kicked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a friend of Debbie Rowe`s. He said this about her. She is not going to lay down and roll over, he said. So maybe they are trying to come to an agreement out of court, out of the public eye, and that`s why this hearing has been delayed. But we`ll have to wait to see if this gets ugly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has said things -- and I`m quoting here -- about having children, "I did it for him to become a father, not for me to become a mother." And she even said when asked what would happen with the kids if Michael should die, she said, quote, "I`m sure he has a wonderful person in mind to take care of them."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s still the biological mother. She could have a change of heart and she could try to position herself as saying, Look, Michael was a great father, he`s gone, I want to step into their lives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you willing to take a cash settlement for the kids?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How important are the kids to you, Debbie?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She basically sold them for $8.5 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Bombshell charges leveled tonight, charges that Michael Jackson was murdered.
Out to Paul Vercammen, our producer there in L.A. Paul, what can you tell us?
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN PRODUCER: Well, I can tell you this on background. La Toya Jackson sat down for four hours with this reporter last Thursday and began discussing what she thought was, quote, the "murder" of Michael Jackson. And she was pressed hard. That`s a very strong term, obviously, Nancy, as you know. And she said, Yes, indeed, I want to say that I believe my brother was quote, "murdered."
She went on to say that there`s this shadowy entourage that she believes was involved in all this. You also heard that she said that she believed her brother was worth more than a million (SIC) dollars. And talking about that entourage, we had heard all along and other people have said that there was a group of security guards and others who watched Michael Jackson, and I guess what La Toya`s implying here is not only were they turning a blind eye to whatever drug use might be going on, but they might have been enabling Michael Jackson.
GRACE: To Mike Walker, senior editor with "The National Enquirer." Murder charges being leveled? Explain.
MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER": I don`t understand what the motive would be to murder Michael Jackson. If this is some short-term thing -- the million dollars La Toya`s referring to is not how much Michael was worth, it was about how much he kept around the house in cash. She was wondering where the money went that was in the house, and the jewels, and so forth. When he died, a lot of people came in the house and suddenly, all this stuff is missing.
Now, I don`t think that we`re going to find there was murder here. And as far as people enabling him, no question. But Michael let people enable him. Anybody who wouldn`t give him what he wanted to have in the way of drugs or whatever were suddenly gone. We know that. Michael changed entourages over and over and over and over again.
GRACE: Out to Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor who has handled many, many death penalty prosecutions. Eleanor, everyone is pooh-poohing the charges of La Toya Jackson, but isn`t it true that while the LAPD chief is mulling criminal charges, someone is responsible for four fresh track marks in Michael Jackson`s neck. Now, Eleanor, please, don`t humor any of us by suggesting that Jackson himself shot himself up in the neck.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: That would be extremely difficult to do, especially if it was the Diprivan that we`ve heard so much about that`s only allowed in the OR. So definitely, there could be something there given to Michael Jackson by another person. Could be murder.
GRACE: OK, here`s my next question. Eleanor, again, a lot of people think that that will never happen in this case. But if someone, in fact, did give him a lethal dose of whatever drug, whether it`s still in his system at the time of autopsy, now two autopsies -- and we`ve learned from the second autopsy about these fresh needle tracks in his neck -- that may equate to malice murder, when you give somebody a shot in the neck or four shots in the neck of a potentially lethal prescription drug when given in that amount?
DIXON: Exactly, Nancy, because if you`re giving him an overdose, then it would definitely lead to a murder charge, if he died.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Murray prescribed certain things to Michael Jackson as a doctor. You know, he had medical conditions, medical complaints.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson demanded that (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He demanded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, Michael, you`re spending too much money. It doesn`t make sense. He goes, You don`t understand. My body is the machine that fuels this whole business, OK? I need that kind of attention. And you know what? When Michael Jackson says that to you and there`s this much at stake, you don`t argue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s nothing in his history, nothing that Dr. Murray knew, that would lead him to believe that he would go into sudden cardiac arrest or respiratory failure. It`s still a mystery, how he died, to Dr. Murray.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As anyone would know (INAUDIBLE) so we`re extremely grateful for all the support. We love you all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re not alone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to let you all know that you have been very, very supportive. And as you well know, Michael loved his fans more than anything (INAUDIBLE) He has always said that his family is first and his fans are second. I know (INAUDIBLE) happy that you`re here supporting him. He`s watching every last one of you, and I just want to thank you all for being here for him. He loves you very, very much. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) all of your support. Michael will forever live in all of our hearts (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing video from TMZ.com. That`s of Michael Jackson`s sisters speaking to all of his many fans at his memorial at the Nokia Theatre there in L.A.
We are taking your calls live tonight as stunning charges are leveled that Michael Jackson was murdered. And yes, there is a legal leg to stand on. Straight out to the lines. Patty in Florida. Hi, Patty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. I was wondering if Michael had a hep-lock (ph) or a pick line (ph). A hep-lock is an IV catheter that stays in the vein for up to 72 hours, and a then pick line can be left in there for several months so he could infuse himself.
GRACE: To Mike Walker, senior editor with "The National Enquirer." Any word about that? I guess we wouldn`t know until we actually look at the autopsy report.
WALKER: I had word of this just about a week ago, but it wasn`t sufficient for me to actually publish it. I believe my source, but I needed much more to actually publish it. I will tell you that, yes, I have heard this, that he had one put, you know, under his skin. And that way, you can just very quickly hook yourself up. We know that Michael`s been doing drugs intravenously for, what, more than a decade, so it`s possible.
GRACE: You know what was stunning to me -- to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer -- that sister La Toya goes on to describe the scene when she goes into Neverland and goes into the room where Michael Jackson allegedly passed away. What did she say she observed?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: (INAUDIBLE) La Toya said that she saw oxygen masks lying there on the floor. She saw oxygen tanks not only in the room but in several locations in the house. She also described seeing empty pill bottles, an empty pill box, all kinds of medical equipment in the home.
GRACE: It`s my understanding that she also revealed the children were not allowed in the room when the doctor was giving Daddy his oxygen, and that none of the staff were ever allowed up on that level of the mansion.
JOSTAD: Right. That`s another claim that La Toya is making. She also claims that the doctor actually performed CPR on Michael Jackson in his -- meaning the doctor`s room -- not in Michael Jackson`s room, as we`d heard previously. But the doctor says that is absolutely not true. He doesn`t know where La Toya got that information.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there in L.A. There was to be a big courtroom showdown today. There were a lot of no- shows. Why was it postponed?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. Attorneys for the Jacksons and an attorney for Debbie Rowe said that they wanted to come together to try to reach some amicable understanding or -- understanding about what to do with the children in terms of Debbie Rowe. So reportedly, what is going to happen is that Debbie Rowe will get supervised visitation of the children. Also, the children will not be referring to her as "Mother," but they will be calling her "Miss Debbie." However, we still have this hearing that is coming up on the 20th, where we are expecting Debbie Rowe to be in court.
GRACE: Out to the lawyers. Let`s unleash them. As you know, Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor joining us from Atlanta, Mickey Sherman, renowned defense attorney joining us out of New York, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" and Peter Odom, veteran trial lawyer also joining us out of Atlanta.
To you, Mickey Sherman. I`m sure giving up her rights to come in and fight for custody is not coming at a small price. I`m talking about Debbie Rowe.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she made a bundle at the beginning of this situation when she basically sold the kids back then. But the feeling I get from the information that`s out there is that she`s here now not to just pick up a check, but apparently, she has a very legitimate -- apparently legitimate -- fear that her children, or these children, will be somehow victimized by Joe Jackson, as was Michael Jackson and his siblings. And the understanding that I see is that she just wants to make sure that they don`t wind up, like Michael Jackson, at the mercy of Joe Jackson`s belt.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, Peter Odom, she`s claiming all this concern for them, and at the same time, we are hearing reports that grandfather Joe Jackson plans to launch them on the stage as the Jackson 3. Now, wasn`t it you last week, Peter Odom, that was saying how everything would work out fine if Katherine Jackson, the grandmother, had the children, that she would not allow interference from Joe Jackson?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that, Nancy, the court...
GRACE: Yes, that was you.
ODOM: I don`t remember saying that. But Nancy, you know what? If Katherine has the children, then there`s always the chance that Joe Jackson is going to have access and there`s nothing the court`s going to be able to do about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARIS JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S DAUGHTER: Ever since I was born, Daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine! And I just want to say I love him so much!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was little Paris, just 11 years old, at her father`s memorial. Apparently, we learned that she put in his casket a necklace wrapped around his hand and had multi-colored stones that she put around his head and shoulders, like a garland, in the casket when she was taken to see his body.
Back out to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, we are hearing about a second autopsy. Why was there a second autopsy? Who asked for the second autopsy? And do we know anything in the second autopsy, other than fresh track marks on his neck?
JOSTAD: Well, La Toya Jackson tells this British tabloid that she is the one who asked for the second autopsy because she was concerned about the circumstances of her brother`s death. She wouldn`t reveal what that autopsy reveals, but she did say that it is going to be a shocker, that there are bombshells in that second autopsy.
GRACE: To Brian Oxman, family friend of the Jacksons, host of "Insight" on newsradio KLAA. Brian, do you know what`s in the second autopsy? What`s the bombshell?
BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY CONFIDANT: Don`t know what the bombshell is. They`ve kept that a very closely guarded secret. I do know that it is consistent with what the coroner did at the L.A. coroner`s office. So you`re not going to have any kind of contradictions. Its purpose was to get information quick to the family, and it accomplished that purpose.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the day Michael Jackson`s "This is It" tour was supposed to kick off in London.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Some of the last images ever recorded of Michael Jackson performing, two days before he died. A full length dress rehearsal for his upcoming show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was very energetic, he was happy. He was even more playful than he normally was at rehearsal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a gentleman here who needs help and he`s not breathing. He`s not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson is a very frail man. He was very thin. Very small.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a glow about him. His shoulders back, his head up. And he just -- he just looked great, he sounded great. He just had this triumphant feel about him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s 50 years old, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 50? OK, he`s unconscious, he`s not breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. He`s not breathing, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As for Jackson`s body, a source involved with the investigation described it as, quote, "lily white" from head to toe. The body was emaciated despite the vigor Jackson showed on stage during his final rehearsal just 36 hours earlier.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I know is the Michael Jackson that hugged me and said good night was a healthy, vibrant human being about to under take the greatest undertaking of his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Mike Walker, the location of his body shrouded in mystery all this time. I understand it has been secretly moved from where to where?
MIKE WALKER, SENIOR EDITOR, THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER, COVERING STORY: Well, it`s secretly moved now, of course, to the basement of Forest Lawn. It was previously upstairs or outside in Berry Gordy`s crypt. And when that news came out, all the looky-loose were down there.
In fact, the people were removing the B`s or the G`s, or whatever, you know, anything that showed it was Berry Gordy`s crypt. And then finally they realized it was just out of control. So they had to move the body into -- you know, they have places to keep bodies, there are refrigerators and so forth at Forest Lawn.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Out to Annie in California. Hi, Annie.
ANNIE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I have a question. You know it`s apparent he was an addict with drugs, which, you know, a lot of people are. My question is, after the police department, you know, released the house and people went in and apparently, I guess they were taking things out.
Could anybody have put anything in there to make it look more like, you know, somebody else did this to him so that he died more of a tragedy than the superpop icon that was a drug addict?
GRACE: Hmm. What about that. To John Lucich, president of High Tech Crime Network. The likelihood that someone planted things there on the scene?
JOHN LUCICH, FMR. CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR, PRESIDENT OF HIGH TECH CRIME NETWORK: Look, when you have a crime scene or a potential crime scene that`s not protected and locked down, that kind of thing can happen. And even if it doesn`t happen, certainly someone can make the case that it might have happened to taint any type of future prosecution. Those cops should have locked that down until they were done with it.
GRACE: You know, you`re right. They towed away the doctor`s car but they did not cordon off the house at all. People were still going in and out at free will.
And what can you tell me, Brian Oxman, about $1 million worth of money and jewels now missing from the home?
BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY CONFIDANTE, HOST INSIGHT; NEWSRADIO KLAA: La Toya is usually pretty accurate in these things, Nancy. She talked to Michael a great deal. She was very, very confidential with him. And so she would have known these things.
Michael was known to have money on the premises. How much money? No one really knew but if he told her that amount, I believe her because I think La Toya is right on the beam here. She`s accurate, she`s smart. And when she says that there`s something amiss here, you better believe it because I`ve been talking to her for this very same subject matter for two years and she`s been consistent the whole time.
GRACE: To Dr. Gerald Feigin, medical examiner for Camden County, joining us out of Philadelphia. The fresh track marks on his neck, Dr. Feigin, what does that say to you? Could those have been self-inject ed?
DR. GERALD FEIGIN, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, CAMDEN COUNTY, NJ: I have never seen self-injected there. Sometimes during resuscitation, EMTs or parademics can do them, and you have to check with the records to see what was done. But during my training in Detroit, people used to pay others to do those injection sights but in my over 20 years of work I have never seen anybody self-inject in the neck veins.
GRACE: Dr. Feigin, where on the neck do you inject?
FEIGIN: The external jugular would be the most common place that I`ve seen.
GRACE: Could you show us?
FEIGIN: Roughly out here where I`m pointing above my collar, sometimes below if it`s loosened. But those are the only areas I have ever seen injected. But often you`ll see that with resuscitation. So you have to make -- be real careful not to mix what happened during resuscitation to what happened before then.
GRACE: We know that there were injection marks directly into his heart during the resuscitation efforts. You`re right. Would have to see what the paramedics did trying to bring him back to life.
To Dr. Janet Taylor, MD and psychiatrist, joining us out of New York. Doctor, we just heard someone state that Michael Jackson allowed or encouraged the enablers. In other words, basically, laying all of the fault on Jackson. What do you make of that?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I mean, he paid them. They were on his payroll. Clearly, this has been going on for many, many years. And a lot of people around him, family included, dropped the ball trying to get an intervention knowing how difficult it was. But hindsight is 20/20 and now we`re pointing fingers and in fact, we`ve been watching this demise.
GRACE: To Bradd Lamm, board registered interventionist at Changesomeoneyoulove.com.
Brad Lamm, thank you for being with us.
BRAD LAMM, BOARD REGISTERED INTERVENTIONIST, CHANGESOMEONEYOULOVE.COM: Hey, Nancy.
GRACE: What do you make of all this talk that he encouraged the enablers? That now there`s a lot of finger-pointing? You know, we hear that he and his bodyguards keep them away and wouldn`t take calls from his 79-year-old mother. You are the expert. Other people don`t want interventions and the target never wants to have an intervention.
LAMM: Yes, if they would say yes, I wouldn`t have a vibrant practice.
GRACE: That`s why you call it an intervention.
LAMM: Intervention. Well, they did a few things, it seems like, that weren`t the best case scenarios. But I think we`re seeing now to -- everybody trying to make sense of what happened. La Toya saying maybe it was murder. The family trying to make sense of this horrible.
GRACE: No, she`s saying it was murder. And Brad, less than a month before his death, there was a 60th wedding anniversary celebration at Jackson`s favorite Indian restaurant. They were all there. You know, there was the perfect time to grab him and have an intervention.
LAMM: Well, and I agree. But here`s an interesting fact, Nancy, and I know you love facts. It takes the average family seven years to build consensus on what to do. And, in fact, thanks to you, I`m doing some pre- change seminars in California the next couple of days so families can learn how to step in and actually help change someone they love who`s in crisis.
GRACE: Ellie, who is she saying killed Jackson?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, she`s not specific about who she believes is responsible for this conspiracy that killed Michael Jackson for his money. She refers to his shadowy people around him, an entourage, hangers on, but she doesn`t name any names.
GRACE: On to the lines, Doris at Delaware. Hi, Doris.
DORIS, CALLER FROM DELAWARE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DORIS: I have a two-part question. Number one is, when the will first -- originally came out, my question is, is if Michael was on all of these drugs and everything, like everybody is saying that he was, isn`t there a possibility that he could have been under that -- under medication when he was signing that will?
And the second part is, is it a possibility that this doctor, when they found needle marks on Michael`s neck could have injected him with medicine right before he woke up from the Diprivan?
GRACE: I think anything is possible when it comes to those marks on his necks. I think anything is possible.
But, regarding the will, he obviously was under the influence of drugs. I looked at a copy of the will myself, Doris in Delaware, and he not only signed it and it is his signature. You can compare it to his signature for years proceeding. It`s his signature. He also initialled every single paragraph.
Now, very quickly, out to you Mickey and Peter -- to you first, Peter Odom. We now have a self-authenticating will, which, basically, you go on and you add in, I`m of sound mind and body. And I`ve got witnesses to say I`m in sound mind and body when I signed this will. So don`t claim I was crazy or doped up when you try to contest the will.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: So this very will, most likely a self-authenticating will.
ODOM: Right. And in California, Nancy, there are specific requirements about witnessing the will. And so there`s a presumption as long as it`s properly witnessed and authenticated that it`s correct, it`s going to be the burden of somebody else to come forward and say he was not of sound mind, he was hallucinating and so far, no one`s come forward to say that.
GRACE: And Mickey Sherman, the autopsy comes out Friday. Do you think there may be yet a third autopsy?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": There could be. It`s obviously going to show that there was a surplus of bad things in this man`s body. And if I could go back to La Toya Jackson`s accusation, there`s no way that anybody murdered Michael Jackson here. I think what she`s meant is rhetorical, that they allowed her -- they allowed him to die by a virtue of all the garbage that was in his veins, that the people close him allowed it to happen.
GRACE: Mickey, there you go. There you go.
SHERMAN: It`s likely.
GRACE: Making excuses for somebody shooting him up. He did not stick four needles in his own neck.
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: I was just saying it wasn`t murder.
GRACE: Well, pick it up.
SHERMAN: He wasn`t murdered.
<snipped>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/13/ng.01.html
ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Jackson Murder Conspiracy?
Aired July 13, 2009 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, stunning twists in the investigation into Michael Jackson`s death. Was the King of Pop murdered? That`s what sister La Toya is saying, alleging that Michael was killed by a conspiracy of enablers. She also claims Jackson kept up to 1 million bucks in cash in his home that is now nowhere to be found. This on the heels of Joe Jackson saying he suspects foul play. So could the probe into the legend`s death end with murder charges?
Then the custody clash takes a wild turn. After claiming promoters coerced his son to do 50 concerts, whip-cracking stage dad Joe Jackson reportedly floats the idea of Michael`s kids performing, and after having heard Michael Jackson`s horror stories about Dad Joe, could Debbie Rowe be making a secret deal to keep him out of the kids` lives? How will it all shake up at the suddenly-postponed custody hearing?
Plus a wealthy Florida couple who gave their hearts to their 12 disabled children, viciously murdered in their own home. Cops arrest three men who they say carried out this attack with military precision. What could possibly be the motive? How did the killers get around the tight security system with the children asleep in their beds? Did the suspects know the victims? We`ll investigate the disturbing questions.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: An avalanche of accusations about conspiracy and murder in the death of Michael Jackson exploding tonight, that just as the Los Angeles coroner tells CNN that the toxicology report could be out by the end of the week.
In a chilling interview reportedly paid for by Britain`s "Daily Mail," Michael`s sister La Toya reveals that Michael had needle marks on his arms and four fresh puncture marks on his neck.
La Toya also making shocking allegations that Michael was murdered. She claims a shadowy entourage of manipulators took advantage of him, using him as a cash cow.
Plus TMZ reports Dr. Conrad Murray, the doctor who was there with Jackson at the time of his death, is now a central figure in the Jackson death probe.
Michael`s father Joe spoke out about Dr. Murray today ABC`s "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, FATHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: They had to have given him something, you know, and then hearing that he went to sleep or something, I don`t know. I guess Michael passed on that. But Michael was dead a long time before they started taking him to the hospital.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: TMZ reports the doctor is not cooperating with investigators, but his lawyer says his client has and will continue to cooperate and is not a focus of the investigation. So which is it?
Meantime journalist Ian Halperin (ph) exposing stunning claims that Jackson was being controlled by a coterie of, quote, "vultures" who essentially forced him into doing that 50-show comeback tour. In May, a former employee told Halperin, quote, "It sounds like somebody else is pulling his strings and telling him what to do. Someone wants him dead. They keep feeding him pills like candy. They are trying to push him over the edge. The people around him will kill him," end quote. Reportedly said back in May. If so, who were those people?
So could the investigation into Michael Jackson`s death even eventually end in homicide charges? We will analyze it all.
And later, in an ironic twist, it looks like Joe`s hint about having Michael Jackson`s children, Paris, Prince Michael and Blanket, become performers might have united the two women fighting for custody of the kids. Did Papa Joe`s comments about turning these kids into the Jackson 3 spark a backroom deal between Debbie Rowe and Katherine Jackson to keep Joe away from the kids?
So much to talk about. I want to hear what you thing about all of this. But first straight out to my fantastic expert panel: Jim Moret, attorney and correspondent for "Inside Edition"; Brian Oxman, former Jackson family attorney; Jayne Weintraub criminal defense attorney; Firpo Carr, former Jackson spokesperson and Jackson family friend; Terry Lyles, crisis expert -- boy, do we need one tonight -- and psychologist; and Mike Walters, the one and only, assignment manager for TMZ.
Mike, TMZ calling Dr. Murray a central figure in the death probe. What is the very latest?
MIKE WALTERS, TMZ ASSIGNMENT MANAGER: Well, I can tell you for sure, Jane, that they are zeroing in on the guy that was there when Jackson passed away.
Now, talking about La Toya, let`s bring in that for a second. Obviously, with a grain of salt, it`s a British tabloid. But she does mention the needle marks. We did that story also. It`s true. He had fresh needle marks on his neck, on his hands, on his arms, on his legs, ankles. I mean, this was somebody that obviously had a problem.
Now, look at the other thing she talked about. The I.V. thing in the room, where he was laying. Dr. Murray. She had a conversation with him. She said he was weird and kind of didn`t want to talk about anything. Then he took off.
And she sort of goes through -- she never names anything, and the murder is a little strong at that point. But she named some of the stuff we talked about on this show several times, and a lot of stuff is zeroing back in on the guy who was there when he passed away.
Now, the question is did he -- and you know they found Propofol, the drug. Did he or did he not inject Michael Jackson with this strong sedative, an anesthesia that he shouldn`t have used in or out of the hospital? Did he or not? I don`t know. His lawyer won`t say. They`re going to find out. And if they do, you bet your butt there will be some criminal charges.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I want to say a couple of things. One, Dr. Conrad Murray or his attorneys are invited on the show at any time to give their side of the story. We want to be fair here.
And we want to stress that Dr. Murray is insisting that he is cooperating with the authorities, that he is not a target of the investigation. And he said flat out he did not give Demerol or OxyContin to Michael Jackson. But they have not issued any comment on the issue of Diprivan.
But Firpo Carr, I want to go to the whole issue of Michael Jackson being controlled. I mean if he was controlled, he`s not controlled by a doctor. He`s controlled by somebody else who might be, allegedly, controlling the doctor. But he`s not -- he`s not being controlled by a doctor. The doctor has no stake in it.
So who is it that you think La Toya`s talking about when she`s talking about these puppet masters who have a handle on Michael Jackson and has ordered him to do certain things?
FIRPO CARR, FORMER JACKSON FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: Well, it could be the enablers. In fact, it would have to be the enablers.
Now here`s something else that I think needs to be taken into consideration. The family suspects something`s wrong. Now why is that? Well, how do they know that? They`re given a second autopsy, a second opinion. Now, that happened before with another family member, by extension, if you will.
When Tito`s wife, DeeDee, died and they said that she died of drowning in a swimming pool, and of course, they went to the L.A. Coroner`s Office. And actually, what they did is they said that that was the case. The family said, "No, something`s wrong. She`s afraid of water. She does not go swimming."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s not get into any other case. Let`s stay on this one.
CARR: It`s actually related.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to focus on this particular case. I know. I mean...
CARR: Because what happened is that the family actually does that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jayne Weintraub, you wanted to weigh in?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: La Toya`s accusations, I thought, were focused in on the promoters and the money and the Nation of Islam that he was complaining about and how everybody had a stake in the interests of what was going on, if he couldn`t perform, and that they were forcing him to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But Brian Oxman, if -- if you`re controlling him that way, you don`t want him to die. You want him to live so he can do all those performances. That`s what doesn`t make sense about La Toya`s claims.
BRIAN OXMAN, FORMER JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: No. Absolutely correct, Jane. But it makes great a sense what La Toya is talking about.
We have talked about this ad infinitum in hundreds of phone conversations over the years, the last two years, where we have talked about the enablers, the people surrounding Michael, and we`ve both been very disturbed about it.
Now she takes it a step further, because she`s a little bit closer to Michael, and she got to be able to talk to him as well as the rest of the family members.
I believe what La Toya is saying is absolutely correct. She does not exaggerate when she`s talking about this. And I say, hey, she`s got it right on the nail head.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. One second. I want to talk about Jackson`s lack of control over his own life. It`s a recurring theme. If he was a puppet, the big question was who is the puppet master, who was the puppet master?
Jackson biographer Ian Halperin alleges it was Jackson`s nanny Grace, who introduced the Nation of Islam and its security guards into Jackson`s camp. But that she later came to lament the group`s increasing influence over Jackson`s affairs.
Halperin claims the nanny said Jackson rented a Beverly Hills home from the National of Islam for $100,000 a month, suggesting Jackson had no clue that the property should only have cost 25 grand a month. Ian Halperin is a well-known investigative journalist who contributed to "60 Minutes II" and Court TV. So we`re not talking about some tabloid hack here, Jim Moret. We`re talking about a journalist, who`s saying essentially the role of the Nation of Islam was very influential in Jackson`s life.
JIM MORET, CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": You look at La Toya`s claims. I took -- I spoke with a member -- a family friend today who says that La Toya is in many ways speaking for the family on this issue. She -- you know, she signed the death certificate. She`s not out in left field on this, because a number of members of Jackson`s family have been concerned for a long time that he is being controlled and that doctors are using medication to control him.
I don`t really know that the investigators are looking at murder. I think that if Diprivan was used, if they can find out who administered it, they may be looking at a manslaughter charge, but they`re clearly also looking at a separate investigation on doctor shopping, on medication, drug abuse. And this is a long, long problem. We`re not talking about just the events on the date of his death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Firpo, what about the Nation of Islam? Thirty seconds before break.
CARR: Sure. The Nation of Islam was called in. Michael Jackson agreed to it. The family was quite concerned over the Nation of Islam being involved way back in 2005.
In fact, they almost came to fisticuffs with some of Jackson`s brothers, so that lets you know that there were some hard feelings there. Now what happened towards the end, that`s something that probably will be investigated, and we`ll find out later. But bottom line is, the family did have a Nation of Islam. Yes.
OXMAN: An update for Firpo. They were not involved in Michael`s life. Absolutely...
CARR: Actually...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I went -- when I was at Neverland Ranch they were there making me sign the contract to get into Neverland Ranch. That was a while ago.
OXMAN: That was a long while ago.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think the King of Pop was a victim of foul play: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. Sound off.
And then, a horrific story. A wonderful Florida couple dedicated to helping disabled children gunned down in their own home. Cops arrested three men but think more people are involved. They`re still out there. The suspects wore all-black ninja outfits. The question is why.
But first so many unanswered questions on the death of Michael Jackson. Here`s the 911 call from when he first collapsed on that tragic day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he on the floor? Where is he at right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s on the bed, sir. He`s on the bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, let`s get him on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, let`s get him down to the floor. I`m going to help you with CPR right now...
Did anybody see him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we have a personal doctor here with him, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you have a doctor there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEONARD ROWE, FORMER FINANCIAL ADVISOR FOR MICHAEL JACKSON: There will come the knowledge to everybody that Michael was addicted to prescription drugs. He wouldn`t have to be an M.D. to look at Michael and know that he was not in good physical shape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yet another person close to Michael Jackson, speaking out about the singer`s addiction to prescriptive meds, but why didn`t anybody come forward before he died?
Back to my fantastic panel. Phone lines lighting up. Janice, Tennessee, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Thank you for taking my call. I`m just curious. I think it was during Michael`s last molestation trial wasn`t La Toya interviewed saying that she more or less kind of threw him under the bus, pretty much, for lack of a better term, saying that -- or implying that he could be guilty of molestation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Oxman, you were there.
OXMAN: Absolutely not. She was there almost every day of that trial. She would drive with Michael in the car. She was holding his hand. She was the greatest supporter. She never threw him under the bus. She drove the bus to make sure that Michael was there.
And on the last day of the trial, she was in the car saying to Michael, "It will be OK. I know that the lord will take care of you." And he did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Jim Moret, though, I think she did write a biography or some kind of work years ago where she said some very unkind things about Michael Jackson, and they had a rift.
MORET: Yes. I think that she came out in `93 in the first investigation, but clearly at the time of this trial years later, that rift was resolved.
CARR: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get back to Brian and this whole Nation of Islam. Let`s try to put that one to bed. You`re saying that at the time of his death, the Nation of Islam was no longer involved in his life?
OXMAN: Well, he had very good friends always in the Nation of Islam. And in fact, after the memorial service, I met Louis Farrakhan, who I have met many times in the past. He knows these folks. He has been one of their friends. But he has not been one who has practiced the Nation of Islam. That has always been something Jermaine Jackson has done.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
CARR: Actually -- actually, there`s a little correction. Jermaine Jackson isn`t involved with the Nation of Islam. He`s involved with orthodox Islam. Let`s get that straight right now. There is a difference.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, all right. But religion aside, Firpo, who -- we`re trying to find out who was the puppet master. Any thoughts?
CARR: You know, that`s a question that has to be answered in the future, and my own personal thought is that you have individuals -- and that`s why they`re puppet masters. They are behind the scenes. They do not want to be identified right now. That`s a fact.
And insofar as the Nation of Islam is concerned, in 2005 you actually had a security force that had members of the Nation of Islam, and I think that`s what Brian Oxman may have been referred to. But the fact of the matter is, he is good friends with the Nation of Islam.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
CARR: And I`m not at all implying that they are -- the puppet masters are behind it. But I will say that there was some concern.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: TMZ -- TMZ is reporting Dr. Conrad Murray, the doctor who was with Jackson when he died, is the central figure in the Jackson death probe, something that he`s denying. Listen to Joe Jackson on ABC`s "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON: I just couldn`t believe what was happening to Michael, because -- I just couldn`t believe it, you know. And I do believe there was foul play. I do believe, that yes. The doctor definitely did confine him for three days or something. That`s what made me believe something is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there`s also reference to a delay of about half an hour in calling 911, because Dr. Murray allegedly or apparently didn`t have Michael Jackson`s address.
But he spent a lot of time there, Terry Lyles. Does it make sense that somebody who`s spending so much time at somebody`s house doesn`t have their address?
TERRY LYLES, CRISIS EXPERT: Well, let me tell you. There`s -- you know, foul play has been mentioned several times. I think there`s been foul play going on for a long time. I mean, you have a cocktail for disaster here. You`ve got, you know, large debts owed. You`ve got Michael that`s being drugged. He`s got his own stress and pressure. You`ve got these handlers that are all pressing in to get their piece and manipulate. I mean, you`ve got a disaster waiting to happen.
If anything, somebody just messed up and this occurred, and here we are looking at it, saying what happened? I don`t thing Michael was even aware of half the stuff that was going on, if we really knew the details.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And once again we have to say Dr. Murray has not been charged with anything. This isn`t even a criminal case yet. This is a death investigation.
Jim Moret, everybody is making comparisons to the Anna Nicole Smith case. What strikes me is that there is a difference here, and I`ll call it the Diprivan difference, because many pills you can take yourself. But Diprivan, that`s something you can`t really administer to yourself, because it knocks you out instantly. So if it were administered it would have to be administered by someone else.
MORET: Right. And if it was administered, then we will see a criminal investigation here, I think, Jane. You will see an involuntary manslaughter charge brought here, because there`s no reason.
You`ve talked to a number of doctors. Not one of them has ever heard of Diprivan being used outside of a clinic or a hospital. And clearly, there`s no medical reason. It`s not used for sleep therapy. It`s not used for anything outside of an operating room setting.
So if, in fact, that`s what killed him, and we have to wait for the toxicology report, you know, then we`ll see...
WEINTRAUB: It`s going to be determined what killed him as opposed to what was in his body because even though we`ll be able to say -- you know, how long it`s been in his blood system, we don`t know what his tolerance was.
Remember, this was a functioning addict. And this isn`t just a celebrity issue. This is any family of any functioning addict in this country or watching this show anywhere will know that this is a problem, this doctor shopping, a true relationship with the prescribing doctor.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
WEINTRAUB: The doctor was sitting next to him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right there. We`ve been talking about the horrors of addiction for a while on this show. In my own book, "I Want," I dive deep into my own personal battle with alcoholism and my journey to sobriety. It`s a recovery memoir, due out this fall, but you can preorder your copy right now. Just click on CNN.com/Jane and look for the preorder section. It`s my personal story, and I`ll tell you right now it`s got some real surprises.
Up next on ISSUES, jaw-dropping developments in the Jackson custody clash. I`ll tell you why Debbie Rowe may be making a secret deal to keep Joe Jackson out of the kids` lives.
And a Florida couple dedicated to helping disabled children gunned down in their own home by men wearing all-black ninja outfits. What in God`s name is going on here? Cops have already made three arrests. They are still trying to find out why somebody would want this wonderful couple who did so much good in the community dead, saying that this plot is a humdinger. The police called it something right out of a movie. We`ll tell you abut it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF BILL BRATTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: No matter which way the coroner`s finding would go and the multiple findings that they make, we would be in a position to, a lot of lost time, if you will, waiting for that report. So we`re not marking time waiting for this report. We`re gathering based on our experience in these matters. Unfortunately, in Los Angeles we have a lot of experience with death investigations, and we`ve got very good investigators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The L.A. police chief talking there tonight. CNN has learned the L.A. coroner`s office official toxicology report could be ready by the end of this week. Will it corroborate the findings of the Jackson family`s private second autopsy?
I`m back with my fantastic panel taking the calls. Barbara in Florida, your question or thought, ma`am. Barbara.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How`s it going?
CALLER: I think that Michael Jackson was a good father who was responsible for three children, and why can`t we hold him responsible for what he has done through his life?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Terry Lyles, you`re the psychologist.
LYLES: Well, you know what? Sometimes it`s easier said than done. I think he -- he was a good father, it appears, by all that we have, and accounts looking at it.
But, you know, the issue is the children are on the sideline, and that`s his main responsibility. But then you`ve got the rest of his life that`s kind of falling down around him: the death, the pressure, the threats of these handlers, as we mentioned earlier. And I`m sure his focus was on the children, but at the same token, he has to protect them and also supply for them. It`s a very complicated weave.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, I want to ask you about this. La Toya claiming that there was an I.V. drip by his bed with oxygen tanks. Joe Jackson is claiming -- and this is just a claim; no independent confirmation of this -- that he had heard that perhaps somebody monitoring and one of the doctors might have fallen asleep during the night and ceased to monitor him when he was under Diprivan. Hypothetically -- hypothetically, what kind of charges could result from that? If it was accidental?
WEINTRAUB: It would probably be gross negligence, reckless disregard. Was it reasonably foreseeable, if he fell asleep and didn`t monitor him and that, if something -- if he went into coronary arrest, that he couldn`t be rescued. The answer is all yes with the causes of death. Then the answer is manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter like Jim Moret said earlier.
And remember -- remember, this is going to be a very long investigation. You have everybody complicit. You have every duty of care. You have a pharmacist who`s got a duty of care with all these doctor- shopping prescriptions, $48,000 a month. Here`s a guy who should have called D.E.A. That`s his duty of care that`s breached.
Then you`ve got doctors, multiple doctors. Are they treating him or are they just writing scripts? Was this guy falling asleep, or this guy is just turning a blind eye?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian...
WEINTRAUB: ... blindfolded, not blind.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
CARR: The -- I have to tell you this. The LAPD, they`re on top of it. You have the individual there, Captain Kyle (ph) Jackson, who`s ahead of robbery and homicide division, if I can say it. And they have a crack team of investigators, so they will get to the bottom of this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Brian, get to the bottom of it? The bottom line is who is the puppet master? I still don`t have the answer.
OXMAN: You`re going to find that out. You`re going to find it out, Jane, because you follow the money, Jane. They`ve got the drug vials, which tell you the pharmacies, which tell you the credit cards. All of it is going to be fall (ph) out...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re talking about the doctors. I`m talking about the puppet master.
OXMAN: The ones paying the bills, Jane, the ones facilitating this. Jerry Brown`s computer, the attorney general, is going to tell you exactly who paid the bill and who the puppet master was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I still don`t understand why somebody would benefit more to have him dead than alive. That`s what I don`t understand La Toya...
WEINTRAUB: Because they had -- they had life insurance policies, Jane. That`s why.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. That`s a conspiracy theory. And you know, thank you. Excellent panel. Great debate.
More Jackson drama on the day. The custody battle shaping up to be a clash of the titans: Debbie Rowe and Joe Jackson. I will tell you why they`re facing off.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The custody clash over Michael Jackson`s kids takes a wild turn. Joe Jackson reportedly floats the idea of Michael`s kids performing. And having heard Michael`s horrors stories about his whip- cracking stage dad; is Debbie Rowe making a secret deal to keep Joe out of the kids` lives?
Plus, a wealthy Florida couple who adopted a dozens disabled children viciously murdered in their own home. Cops arrested three men they say carried out this attack with military precision, but why? What could possibly be the motive and did the suspects know the victims?
A shocking twist in the custody battle over Michael Jackson`s three children: it seems Michael`s dad, Joe Jackson, would like to take his grandkids on tour. Michael Jackson biographer, Ian Halperin said, according to a source extremely close to family -- are you sitting down -- Joe Jackson has already approached two of his grandchildren about recording contracts and would like to take the Jackson 3 on tour as early as next year.
Hello. They`re 7, 11, and 12. Then, again, Michael was just five years old when he started under Joe`s tutelage.
Listen to what Joe Jackson said on "Good Morning America" just last Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: I keep watching Paris, she wants to do something and I said Blanket, he can really dance. That`s what they`re saying. He can really dance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Blanket`s so cute. He`s only seven years old. Leave him alone.
Could these new allegations affect the custody hearing? Originally set for today the hearing was postponed at the request of both Katherine Jackson and Debbie Rowe`s attorney.
That`s sparking rumors that a secret deal is being negotiated right now between the "King of Pop`s" mom and the biological mom of his two oldest kids. Some reports suggest that deal has already been struck. They claim it would ban Joe Jackson from having any involvement in raising the kids.
Michael Jackson`s friend and dermatologist Arnie Klein told Larry King, he too, is worried about Joe`s influence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ARNOLD KLEIN, MICHAEL JACKSON`S DERMATOLOGIST: I worry about the Jackson family only because I worry slightly about the father.
LARRY KING, HOST "LARRY KING LIVE": In what way?
KLEIN: That he was very difficult to deal with, with Michael. They announced his new record label at the memorial as you remember. And they see him as far more interested in making money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t forget, Joe Jackson was vilified after he announced that new record label when a reporter asked him for a reaction to his son`s death.
So many ISSUES, straight out to my fantastic expert panel: Terry Lyles, crisis expert and psychologist; Jim Moret, chief correspondent for "Inside Edition;" and joining us by phone, Stacy Brown, author of "Michael Jackson: The man Behind the Mask;" and of course, Brian Oxman, former Jackson family attorney and family friend.
Brian, you know this family so well. Why on earth is Joe Jackson promoting his new record label and talking about the performing talents of his Jackson`s three young kids at this time? Doesn`t he get it`s going to make him look like a vulture?
BRIAN OXMAN, FORMER JACKSON`S FAMILY ATTORNEY: Joe Jackson is Joe Jackson. And let me tell you something. We all love him. Michael loved him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t love him.
OXMAN: He just has -- well, I understand that. And I understand people`s reactions to it. And I see it, Jane. I know what you`re talking about. But he is a loveable character. What can I tell you except that he`s a nice man.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you find him a loveable character? Just give me that?
OXMAN: Because he`s sincere, he`s honest. And I know that he smacked his children around but there`s not a single one of them who hold it against him. And there`s not a single one of them who doesn`t praise the day that he got them out of Gary, Indiana.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re back to that again, that it`s ok...
OXMAN: Wow.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...to hit children as long as you get them out of a bad neighborhood?
OXMAN: No. No. It`s not ok. It is not ok at all, it`s wrong. But I`m telling you that they all love him and he is a lovable character and that`s really the bottom line of it all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jim Moret, tell us what`s going on behind the scenes. We hear there`s going to be a conference call on Friday where both sides are going say what deal they might have achieved on the phone and then possibly a hearing just to rubber stamp it on Monday?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": I think that Joe Jackson`s biggest problem is speaking right now. And I don`t think it`s an accident that Katherine Jackson went to court alone before the will was discovered and sought to be a guardian alone, that the will itself calls for Katherine to be the guardian alone, that Debbie Rowe suggested that she might try to seek a restraining order against Joe Jackson.
I think that Michael Jackson has always been very vocal about the abuse he claims he suffered at the hands of his father and that Debbie Rowe, I believe, has a concern about that. I also believe the fact that the hearing today was delayed until next week is a very good sign that this will be worked out in private and not battled out in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
And I remember covering the Jackson case a long time ago where I never even knew there was such a thing as private trials and private courts. I mean they have -- the rich have stuff that you wouldn`t even believe because I went there and toured it and they give you M&Ms. And it`s unbelievable.
Debbie Rowe has said Michael Jackson told her the details of Joe Jackson`s alleged abuse while they were married. It`s one of the reasons she doesn`t want Joe involved in the kid`s lives. Michael Jackson describes his father`s abuse on the Oprah Winfrey show in 2003. Listen to this.
(continued below)
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/13/ijvm.01.html
(continued)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST OF "OPRAH": Did he ever beat you?
MICHAEL JACKSON, "KING OF POP": Yes, he did. Yes.
WINFREY: And that was difficult to take...
JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: ...getting beaten and going on stage and performing.
JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: And why would he beat you?
JACKSON: Because he -- he saw me -- he wanted me to -- I guess I don`t know if I was his golden child or whatever it was. Some may call it a strict disciplinarian or whatever, but he was very strict, very hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Stacy Brown isn`t it possible that Debbie Rowe has also got her own agenda for herself and is using this whole Joe issue as leverage to get what she wants?
STACY BROWN, AUTHOR, "MICHAEL JACKSON: THE MAN BEHIND THE MASK" (via telephone): Jane, no question. In fact, I can tell you that we`re talking about a conference call on Friday. While a deal has been struck, I have the best of sources on this that a verbal agreement was reached and guess what? There`s no language in the agreement that prohibits Joe from being around those children.
That will probably be the headline once this agreement is made public, once it`s signed and sealed. There is nothing in it to keep Joe away from those kids.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what does it say, in your opinion?
BROWN: I`m sorry.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does it say in your opinion?
BROWN: Debbie will get a certain amount of money, not right away. She will get some visitation and they will all be supervised visitation and these children will not -- she will not be mommy, she will be Miss Debbie.
There is nothing in the agreement that says that even after something -- even if something happened to Katherine that Debbie would get custody. In fact, I`m told on good authority that this deal prohibits Debbie from seeking any future custody of these children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it hasn`t -- hasn`t that happened though, over and over again, Brian Oxman...
OXMAN: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...that she keeps giving the children away and giving up her parental rights and suddenly she comes back like a bad penny over and over again?
OXMAN: No provision in any kind of settlement agreement regarding custody can stop a parent from seeking future custody. It is void. It is contrary to the law. We always look at the best interests of the children.
You don`t have a deal with the Jackson family and Debbie Rowe, until it is signed, sealed, and delivered, stamped by the court. So all premature speculation, it can change at any moment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to say also to Debbie Rowe, you`re invited on the show to tell your side of the story any time you want to. And if you have another opinion to express, we`d like to hear it. We want to be fair here.
Terry Lyles, there`s this report that I`ve read in the "New York Post" and just heard from Stacy Brown that the kids are not going to call her mommy, that they won`t know she`s mommy. She`s going to be Miss Debbie.
Well, hello. Prince Michael is 12. I`m sure he has computer access. One Google and he`ll know the truth.
TERRY LYLES, CRISIS EXPERT & PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, if this legally isn`t lined out very, very specifically I think it`s going to be an ongoing mess if it`s not careful. I mean, you`ve got -- Joe has his interest and you`ve got the grandma who`s probably trying to be the protector and you`ve got Debbie that`s trying to figure out what she can get out of this deal perhaps.
The children again, are the ones that are or concern. If they don`t have this clearly lined out this could turn into a circus very quickly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what I`m saying is, Jim Moret, what`s the point of saying they have to call her Miss Debbie when, again, as a 12-year-old he`s probably on the computer and probably knows a heck of a lot more than anybody -- the kids always know more than the parents think they know.
MORET: That`s true but the real thing that you have to pay attention to is who is caring for the children on a daily basis? Are they happy? Are they loved? I talked to a family friend today and said, look, they`re around their cousins, their aunts, their uncles, and they`re with Katharine.
Are they grieving? Of course, they are. They miss their father, but they`re as happy as they can possibly be and they`re being shielded from media reports. They`re not watching TV. They are swimming, they`re playing video games and they`re being cared for like you should care for these kids.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and I know when I was a kid I was up reading a lot of books and my parents had no idea that I was reading. And they were arguing over whether I could read Madame Bovary -- anyway.
Brian Oxman, these kids are so fantastic from what we`ve seen at the memorial. Tell us about them; little Paris just seems so eloquent and so composed.
OXMAN: Oh, Jane. They are beautiful children. My fondest memory is Michael Jackson sitting with them, reading African-American history with them, telling them about their heritage, where they came from, the family. I just think they`re adorable. They have always been just beautiful with beautiful smiles. I like them and I think America`s going to fall in love with them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Stacy, how did they turn out so wonderful given all the stories we`re hearing about Michael Jackson and drugs.
BROWN: Well, you know what, Jane? That`s a great question and I think a lot of that credit has to go to Grace, the nanny. Being a steady, steady influence up; until about eight and nine months ago, she was the influence in their lives.
And quite frankly, from all accounts, from the family`s accounts and from the very few things that I saw personally, Michael showed them a lot of love.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, everyone, for the insights. We have to leave it right there.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/13/ijvm.01.html
NANCY GRACE
Debbie Rowe Denies Reported $4 Million Payoff
Aired July 14, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson. That mystery intensifies as questions mount as to his sudden death, his half-a-billion-dollar empire, and more important, custody of the star`s three little children. After murder charges leveled in the death on Jackson -- his family publicly claiming he was murdered -- bombshell tonight. The payoff! That`s right, we learn a secret deal in the works wherein bio mom Debbie Rowe doesn`t fight for custody of Jackson`s three children. Payoff, $4 million -- $4 million! -- for Rowe to just go away and keep her pie hole shut! Rowe vehemently insists it`s not true.
This while law enforcement shows up on the doorstep of Jackson`s private doctor, demanding answers. Father Joe Jackson does an interview with ABC, and he gets nearly a quarter million dollars, insisting, of course, the money was not for the sit-down interview. OK. Whatever! This as sources claim in a stunning twist, father Joe Jackson reportedly set to force Jackson`s children onto the stage under the name the Jackson 3, actually sending them on the road. Jackson often discussing physical abuse, beatings at the hands of his own father, Joe Jackson, always keeping his own children far, far away. Father Joe also saying he himself will raise Jackson`s children and now put them on the stage. Has Jackson`s worst nightmare come true?
Also, Jackson`s body moved from hiding at the family crypt of Motown founder Berry Gordy after many question, how do you lose a gold-bedecked "Promethean" casket? With 20 helicopters hovering and thousands watching, the casket exited the arena. But was the body ever in the casket, or was it smuggled out in an unmarked van? We confirm a portion of Jackson`s brain missing from the body, withheld for testing.
Jackson`s family infighting boils over, the Jackson brothers pushing ahead with burial in the back yard of Neverland for a Graceland-like Michael Jackson burial theme park. A second autopsy discovers four fresh needle tracks in Jackson`s neck -- that`s right, his neck -- other veins riddled with track marks, many actually collapsing from IV use, his skin paper white, his body emaciated, all in contrast to private video of a full dress rehearsal just hours before his death.
Drugs banned for consumer use, only find behind locked doors in an operating room, found in the home. Jackson reportedly ingesting up to 10,000 pills in just six months, including 40 Xanax a night. This amid reports Jackson wanted to be put under with an IV drip for days on end, essentially lying there like a living corpse for up to 72 hours at a time. The LAPD chief mulling criminal charges over who drugged an addict who happened to be a superstar. As the vultures circling Jackson`s dead body, the fate of his three children unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children? Are you ready to fight for your children?
DEBBIE ROWE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S EX-WIFE: Do not touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody touched you here.
ROWE: You just did! Don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A source close to the family told us that Katherine Jackson`s attorney is actually trying to broker a deal regarding custody. (INAUDIBLE) told the family certainly wants her to give up any notion of custody and any visitation rights. Now, as far as money, absolutely part of the deal. Seems like there is quite a large payoff, actually, in the works. Our source told us that Rowe stands to be paid, quote, "many millions" if she agrees to give up any contact and any custody with her two children so the singer`s mother, Katherine, can actually raise them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to put this crudely, she sold her children once, she may want to sell them again. Looks like this is an opportunity to cash in for her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has said things, and I`m quoting here, about having children, "I did it for him to become a father, not for me to become a mother."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: La Toya Jackson told a London tabloid she believes her brother was murdered for his money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said people were around him that didn`t have his best interests at heart. So to them, he wasn`t Michael, a brother, a father (INAUDIBLE), he was Michael, the cash cow, the money-making machine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
<snipped>
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson intensifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is word that Jackson family`s negotiating behind the scenes with lawyers for Debbie Rowe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Are you ready to get your butt kicked? Don`t (DELETED) touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lawyer for Jackson`s ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, is denying there is any custody deal in the works involving her two children with the late singer. An attorney for Debbie Rowe calls the newspaper report false that she had agreed to take $4 million not to challenge Katherine Jackson`s custody rights.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: La Toya is quoted as saying in the article these are not Debbie`s kids. They don`t know that she`s their mother. Like everyone else in his life, she was motivated by money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s death really changes the whole situation. And as the surviving parent, she does have a reasonable claim to custody of these children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson," joining us tonight in a primetime exclusive live. Ian, explain to me the alleged payoff, $4 million for Rowe to give up any further claims on the children?
IAN HALPERIN, AUTHOR, "UNMASKED": Well, Nancy, there`s a lot of rumors being bandied about right now, and I`m still reserving judgment until I see the documents themselves. Right now, the Jackson family, the Rowe family -- there`s so many rumors coming out. And the problem is, there`s three amazing children that Michael Jackson doted on, and they`re being left just out in the open in the unknown. And I strongly urge California child welfare to step in and get these children a proper stable environment ASAP because the way things are going right now, it`s very unclear, very shady, and a lot of greed around the Jackson and Rowe camp.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, I want to specifically address reports that a secret deal has been cut, that there will be a $4 million payoff to Debbie Rowe for her to go away and keep her piehole shut and never darken the doorway again with her hand out for money.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. "The New York Post" is reporting that there is a deal that has been made between Debbie Rowe and the Jackson family, like you said, $4 million to walk away, to never challenge custody again, whether the guardian is Katherine Jackson or another member of the Jackson family. However, Rowe`s attorneys now demanding a retraction. They say there is no deal, she`s not taken any money, she`s not going to take any money, other than the spousal support she and Jackson agreed on years ago.
GRACE: To Mary Margaret, senior news editor with Radaronline.com. What can you tell me about an alleged payoff for Debbie Rowe?
MARY MARGARET, RADARONLINE.COM: At this point, we think it`s false. What we do know is the fact that the judge specifically asked that Debbie Rowe and the Jackson family come to an agreement before the hearing so that everyone knows and is on the same page of what`s going to happen to the children. As for money, she`s been very clear through her lawyer that that is not what she`s seeking. So for now, on the record, she doesn`t want any more money, or her kids.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there in L.A. Natisha, do you know any more about the payoff? When is it supposed to go down? And what prompted it?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, once again, sources are telling CNN that there is a payout that is supposed to be happening behind closed doors. However, we don`t know the details of that. Debbie Rowe`s attorney again is saying that this is false, no payoff is going to happen, and Debbie Rowe is not seeking money.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: I`m here to celebrate my son because he was the largest entertainer in the world.
GRACE: Father Joe Jackson reportedly set to force Jackson`s children on the stage under the name the Jackson 3.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of Debbie Rowe`s said she`s not just going to roll over and that she fully intends to seek custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve heard Michael Jackson say countless times how Joe abused him.
JOE JACKSON I never beat Michael in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The understanding that I see is that she just wants to make sure that they don`t wind up, like Michael Jackson, at the mercy of Joe Jackson`s belt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this about what`s best for the kids, or is this about money for Debbie Rowe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debbie, are you ready to fight for your kids, Debbie? Are you ready to fight for your children? Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Do not touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody touched you here.
ROWE: You just did! Don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Are you ready to get your butt kicked? Don`t (DELETED) touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debbie, are you willing to take a cash settlement for the kids?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How important are the kids to you, Debbie?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The payoff, allegedly $4 million. Debbie Rowe denying the entire thing, $4 million once again for her to give up claims on her children and to go away, to disappear.
Back to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what`s the final price tag on Debbie Rowe? How much has she gotten over the years?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, according to court documents, Debbie Rowe got a $5 million settlement years ago from Michael Jackson, and then she was paid another $900,000 for several years after that.
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Did you say $5 million to start with?
JOSTAD: Yes, $5 million.
GRACE: Then $900,000 per year, I believe it was, the next four years?
JOSTAD: Yes. Exactly.
GRACE: But Ellie, aren`t you omitting another payoff after the child molestation charges rear their heads on the scene?
JOSTAD: You`re right, Nancy. There were also reports -- remember, Rowe gave up her parental rights. Then when the 2003 molestation allegations came up and she was concerned about his affiliation with the Nation of Islam, she tried again to get custody. And she went away. At that time, it`s believed that she got another payout from Jackson.
GRACE: How much do we think she got then?
JOSTAD: Don`t know about that time. Reports are very sketchy on that.
GRACE: OK. The reports are very sketchy, but what are the reports, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Well, I`ve heard everything from another $5 million to as much as $7 million or $8 million.
GRACE: OK, back to Mary Margaret, senior news editor, Radaronline.com. We`re looking at an alleged $9 million, not including the current $4 million payoff, allegedly. That`s getting close to $15 million. What does she do with all her money, Mary Margaret?
MARGARET: That`s a really funny topic of discussion. As we know, she lives a quiet ranch life with her horses. She also had a wonderful home that Michael visited her often in Beverly Hills, but she`s since given that up. So we think she has a very fat bank account right now.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Ellie, isn`t it true that she spends about $25,000 a month on horses?
JOSTAD: Well, yes. Debbie Rowe breeds horses, and she`s told people that she is on an allowance. She has a, I guess, fixed income, and that she does have concerns about whether or not she is financially secure.
GRACE: I guess you`re referring to the nearly $10 million to $15 million as a fixed income?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, $25,000 a month on horses. Ellie, does she ever sell any of the horses, or does she just raise them?
JOSTAD: Good question. That`s not clear to me. I`ve seen many reports that Debbie Rowe has a horse breeding enterprise. Now, it`s not clear if this is a hobby of hers or whether or not she`s making money off of this.
GRACE: OK. What can you tell me -- back to you, Ellie, again -- regarding reports -- and where did we get the reports -- that within a doctor`s office, an assistant is claiming Jackson was addicted to dermatological treatments and he would have himself put under an IV drip for up to 72 hours at a time, basically rendering him a living corpse?
JOSTAD: Right. This is a plastic surgery nurse who says she worked for one of Michael Jackson`s doctors. She said that he was getting to the point where he asked for anesthesia even when he wasn`t getting any sort of medical procedure done, that he would ask to be put out for days at a time. She says he was almost like a zombie. She tells the British tabloid "The Sun" that it was like something like out of a horror movie.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Tracy in Illinois. Hi, Tracy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love the show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to say, about a week-and-a-half ago, there was a media report on this channel that Ms. Rowe stated that the kids were a gift to Michael because she knew that he would be a good father. So how would that come into play legally? I mean, a gift is a gift. You can`t get those back.
GRACE: Well put. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Gloria Allred, family law attorney, victims` rights advocate out of L.A., Raymond Giudice, veteran trial lawyer out of Atlanta, and renowned attorney Alex Sanchez joining us out of New York. What about it, Gloria?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, legally speaking, she is the parent of the older two children and that is a matter of law. And if she fought for custody, she would have the legal edge, and so she has leverage in settlement negotiations.
GRACE: What about it, Raymond?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s why she keeps getting more money. She`s got leverage. There`s a presumption in California that -- because of her biological parenthood.
GRACE: But Alex Sanchez, what about the fact that she has repeatedly relinquished rights? Is she in any position to really put up a fight now?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think she is because Michael Jackson has died. Circumstances have changed drastically. And now that he`s died, she has a claim, and I think it`s a legitimate claim and she should go forward with that claim.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowe waived her parental rights in 2001, telling a Los Angeles court, quote, "They are his children," all part of an $8.5 million settlement in which the pop star got full custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A dramatic twist in the fight for Michael Jackson`s kids. "The New York Post" is reporting Debbie Rowe, Jackson`s ex-wife, agreed to drop any custody challenge for 4 million bucks. Now, her attorney denies it, says it`s completely false and Rowe doesn`t want Jackson`s money. He`s even asking for "The Post" to file a retraction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we learn the chief investigator from the L.A. coroner`s office has shown up on the doorstep of Jackson`s private dermatologist, demanding answers.
I want to go out to Dr. Panchali Dar, board-certified anesthesiologist and the author of "Before the Scalpel: What Everyone Needs to Know About Anesthesia." Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor, explain to me, on these vials, wouldn`t there be tracking numbers? Isn`t there a way to find or to track where the propofol came from?
DR. PANCHALI DAR, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: Actually, Nancy, it`s very difficult. This propofol is given from the pharmaceutical company...
GRACE: Is that the generic name?
DAR: Generic name is propofol. Brand name is Diprivan.
GRACE: OK.
DAR: Both interchangeable, same drug, supplied in vials like this. You draw it up into a syringe...
GRACE: Where did you get that, Doctor?
DAR: This is from the hospital.
GRACE: OK.
DAR: It is not a controlled substance, but it should be given in a controlled situation by people who know how to use it properly, such as an anesthesia provider. It is a dangerous anesthetic drug that should not be used...
GRACE: So how could you track if there are not numbers or serial codes on the vial?
DAR: It`s very difficult to track. It goes from the manufacturer to wholesalers to distributors. There were middlemen involved in this. And if they were supplying Michael Jackson with this Diprivan in his house, there was some kind of middleman involved because you would need buckets of this to be asleep for 72 hours.
GRACE: Doctor, do you have a demo for us?
DAR: Absolutely. You can have to set this up just like this, pure Diprivan being infused right into your blood. Pour it in, and you would be dead in a minute. That`s how dangerous it can be.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`ve learned from the second autopsy about these fresh needle tracks in his neck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: La Toya Jackson tells this British tabloid that she was concerned about the circumstances of her brother`s death. She wouldn`t reveal what that autopsy reveals. But she did say that it is going to be a shocker, that there are bombshells in that second autopsy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no indication of any external trauma or any indication of foul play on the body of Mr. Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Claims from some of Michael Jackson`s former employees about his alleged drug use. They told police back in 2004 that Jackson took more than 10 Xanax pills each night and at one point used as many as 30 to 40 pills.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We do not know what, if any, drugs Michael Jackson was taking for insomnia or for any other reason and we won`t know until the toxicology reports are made public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source involved in the investigation said the singer`s arms were riddled with marks and veins in both arms had collapsed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The source would not confirm if Diprivan had been found with Jackson but he told us numerous bottles of prescription medication had been found in Jackson`s rented mansion.
CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S ALLEGED FMR. NURSE, SAYS HE PLEADED FOR DANGEROUS DRUG: He said, I want an IV and because I know that the first drop when I look at it and I see the first drop hit my vein, I`m asleep and I sleep very well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking claims about Jackson`s alleged drug abuse coming from a former friend and psychic, Uri Geller. He said this tragedy was bound to happen.
URI GELLER, FMR. FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON, SAYS HE TRIED TO STOP JACKSON FROM TALKING PRESC. DRUGS: I screamed at him. And I used the words, "Michael, if you continue this, you will die!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Panchali Dhar. Dr. Dhar, you were just saying that in one minute, you`re dead or you`re out dead. What did you mean by that?
DR. PANCHALI DHAR, M.D., BOARD CERTIFIED ANESTHESIOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "BEFORE THE SCALPEL": Well, let me just say, it has to be dosed precisely according to someone`s body weight and tailored to the surgical procedure that`s going on at the moment that you`re under in the operating room under controlled setting.
So let me just explain how it`s given. Usually it`s hooked up to this IV setup and placed in a pump and the physician dials in the amount that should be given to the patient. Another way to give it is to take a syringe and put it into a saline bag and then drip it in. But it`s hand controlled.
If you open it up too wide, what happens is, patient`s breathing becomes shallower and to the point where they would stop breathing. If you stop breathing you would go into cardiac arrest. And I would imagine that if the toxicology reports show this Diprivan in his system at some point, it`s really going to change the picture of everything.
GRACE: Dr. Dhar, how long would Diprivan stay in his system?
DHAR: Well, it is metabolized in the liver so we could potentially find metabolized that are existing in his body tissues, blood samples were taken, I presume, during autopsy, so if it`s there they will find it.
GRACE: Joining me right now from Washington, D.C., Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins.
Dr. Makary, welcome. And what do you make of these new reports we`re just hearing tonight that he had become addicted to various dermatological treatments and would go under for -- wanted to be put under for up to 72 hours at a time. It would be like a living corpse just lying there with an IV drip for three days.
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: It would be like being in a coma with this medication and people can go for -- in comas for months sometimes. It is sort of a perfect sleep. It`s horrible way to get rest, but we know that this Diprivan does burn your vessels and we hear that both veins in both sides of the arms were burnt out and when I hear.
GRACE: What does that mean to have your veins burnt out? I`ve never heard that.
MAKARY: This medication is caustic. It irritates the veins.
GRACE: Caustic.
MAKARY: And it can knurl up and scar down.
GRACE: Hey, we`re just lawyers, Doctor. We`re just lawyers. We`re JDs, not MDs. What do you mean it is a caustic medicine?
MAKARY: It`s caustic -- the veins scar down and collapse and it is a real tip-off when somebody is using the veins in their neck because those are some of the last resort veins that addicts shoot up in.
GRACE: OK.
MAKARY: So that is a sign of serious addiction.
GRACE: You know what, let me just see the lawyers again. Let them back out, Liz. Somebody`s going to jail, all right? Somebody`s going to the pokey. And for a long time. Because if this was some addict laid up on the street there on Third Avenue, nobody would care.
But this time, it`s come to light. It`s come to light that some fancy doctors with nice offices out there in Beverly Hills are doping up Michael Jackson. Three days at a time, lying there like a corpse.
What`s your defense?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: My defense would be let`s see the toxicology, let`s see if there are toxic and dangerous levels of any drugs in Mr. Jackson. All we have now is speculation.
I would also say if the district attorney in the county where Jackson resided or died believes in this case, he or she should impanel a grand jury immediately, start issuing subpoenas and taking testimony. Let`s end speculation and get to the bottom of it.
GRACE: OK. Thank you for the tutorial. Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, if there is a criminal here, let them name names and so far, I`ve heard a lot of speculation, but if you want to prosecute somebody.
GRACE: Put Sanchez back up.
SANCHEZ: You name a name.
GRACE: Put Sanchez up.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know that five doctors.
SANCHEZ: If there`s a criminal activity by a doctor you name a name and then you bring evidence against that person.
GRACE: . are under subpoena and under suspicion right now.
Gloria Allred, you`ve got a chief investigator for the coroner`s office. They are slung up on the front door of his private dermatologist. Now that doesn`t normally happen after a cardiac arrest. After a heart attack.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Yes, alleged -- yes, reportedly the reason that they were there at the dermatologist`s office was that the dermatologist had not provided all of the records, that Dr. Klein had not provided all of the medical records that the coroner`s office was seeking.
But Nancy, I will say that I know Steve Cooley, the district attorney of L.A. County. He will be cautious, he will not try this case in the media, he will make sure that he has all of the evidence that he needs before he decides whether or not he`s going to file a charge in this case.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Joseph Deltito, professor of psychiatry, joining us from New York. Dr. Deltito, the sleep that Michael Jackson would get from intravenous drip of Diprivan, would it be like a regular deep realm sleep? I mean would he wake up feeling as if he had slept? And what would emotionally or psychologically lead him to this point?
DR. JOSEPH DELTITO, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY: Well, many drug addicts dream of a state of oblivion and that`s what this basically is. Some state of oblivion. It`s sort of not what it is, but it`s what it`s not and it`s not real life.
Many people who want to use drugs to get into the state of oblivion are trying to avoid something else, some other pain that they have dealing in the real world. I doubt that it was sleep deprivation, primarily, which led him to want to be put out for three days.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Kaye in Kentucky, hi, Kaye.
KAYE, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hello, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
KAYE: My question is about Michael Jackson as a parent himself. For seven years, he was on drugs, never tried to kick the habit. Why didn`t he want to be around for his own children?
We know Debbie Rowe is not ranking high in the parent division here, but he didn`t either.
GRACE: To Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson," joining us tonight in a live primetime exclusive.
Ian, what can you tell us?
IAN HALPERIN, AUTHOR OF "UNMASKED: THE FINAL YEARS OF MICHAEL JACKSON": Well, Michael was a doting parent and the fact of the matter is, no matter who the biological parent is, it doesn`t matter. Michael Jackson did everything for these children.
They will always only refer to one person as their real parent, that`s Michael Jackson. He traveled all around the world with them after the -- after he was acquitted in 2005. He did everything for those children.
And Debbie Rowe, I hope she`s watching this tonight, Nancy, because Debbie Rowe should be ashamed of herself. Anyone -- I`m a father. Any parent who could demand money to go away and give up their child, they, too, should be held accountable.
I find this disgusting. I hope the media, the world holds her accountable and also the Jackson family. I don`t think they are suitable guardians for these children.
Nancy, we have a major problem here tonight. We have to find -- and I hope the state of California steps in immediately and takes proper action and finds a proper guardian for these children ASAP because these children are going to wind up in the wrong hands.
Joe Jackson wants to exploit the children, like he did Michael Jackson, and we are not going to have a good situation here. That`s where we should focus now. On the children, their welfare.
And also I urge the authorities to bring the doctors to justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New revelations concerning Michael Jackson, his sister La Toya making comments to a couple of British tabloids saying she believes Michael Jackson, her brother, was murdered and his death a conspiracy.
HALPERIN: How is Michael Jackson worth more dead than he is alive? If he completes the 50 shows we`re talking half a billion dollars that people could make off of these shows. I don`t understand how Michael is worth more dead than alive since they only insured for 30 shows.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Michael Jackson had lived to begin his upcoming London shows this man says he likely would not have finished them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew he wasn`t ready to handle them. I knew it was something he could not do. He also knew that. The reason I thought he couldn`t handle it is easy. First of all I saw the shape Michael was in physically. Michael weighed, looked like to me, 110, 115 pounds. He was 5`10".
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowe told me Jackson did not want to work that hard and did not want to go ahead with a grueling concert schedule. He said the singer told him he agreed to do 10 shows but that the promoter, AEG, sold out 50.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, what can you tell me about Jackson`s family getting nearly a quarter million dollars after an interview with father Joe Jackson?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Well TVNewser is reporting that ABC paid $200,000 to license about 10 minutes of video of Joe and Katherine Jackson. They paid this to a production company. This was a documentary that was supposed to air soon.
Now ABC claims that the licensing of the video had nothing to do with the sit-down exclusive they got with Joe Jackson.
GRACE: ABC claims what?
JOSTAD: That the licensing of the video is completely separate from the interview they got.
GRACE: Could you put Ellie back up? Put Ellie back up. Ellie, when you`re saying licensing of video.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: I`m a lawyer, I know what it means to license something. But don`t they give that video to ABC to run on one of their shows and then they get nearly a quarter million dollars for the interview, but ABC and the Jacksons are saying oh no, we didn`t get paid for the interview?
JOSTAD: Well, there`s no comment from the Jacksons about it but ABC is saying, right, they did not get paid for the interview.
GRACE: OK. You know what, they can say whatever they want to, but what you`re telling me as reported in Newser is he sits down for an interview, father Joe Jackson, they give him some video and he gets paid nearly a quarter million dollars, right?
JOSTAD: That`s what TVNewser is reporting. Right.
GRACE: OK. Also, I want to go back to Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson."
Now, Ian, you say that none of the molestations ever happened, right?
HALPERIN: Yes. Originally I started out, I was furious after the 2005 acquittal and I wanted to nail Jackson. I wanted to prove the world that he is, in fact, a child molester. I thought this was another case in California of another O.J. Simpson getting off with high priced lawyers.
GRACE: Right. But you changed your mind.
HALPERIN: I interviewed thousands of people, got access to thousands of documents. I conclude unwavering today, Michael Jackson never molested any children and he`s been the victim of extortion attempts.
GRACE: OK. Ian.
HALPERIN: . and fraudulent attempts to get money out of him.
GRACE: Ian, here`s my question. Here`s my question. Then how is it -- and I imagine you`ve got an explanation for this. How is it that the boy Jordi Chandler could describe disfiguring skin markings on Jackson`s buttocks and under his penis.
HALPERIN: Nancy, you go to read the book. It`s all in the book, Nancy. Those -- that testimony by Jordi Chandler was false, proven false, and I outlined that all in the book. What I`m saying tonight very clearly is Michael Jackson was the victim of extortion attempts, fraudulent attempts to accuse him of something he never did.
He was acquitted and, Nancy, I`ll tell you one thing, if you could give me one shred of proof that Michael Jackson ever molested children I`ll change the conclusion to the book and credit you.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I`m not redoing the trial but I know of multiple children, including Jordi Chandler, that said, testified that he molested them. But I am not retrying the case. He`s dead.
HALPERIN: Nancy, that`s right. There`s.
GRACE: All right? No, no, no. No, no, no.
HALPERIN: Well, one second, Nancy.
GRACE: No, Ian.
HALPERIN: Let`s backtrack for a second. Here`s a man who`s dead.
GRACE: No, I`m not backtracking because we`re going to break.
HALPERIN: And there`s not one shred of proof that he ever molested anyone.
GRACE: All right. Thank you, Ian. I`m not retrying the case since he was acquitted. He`s dead. The criminal cases are over.
<snipped>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/14/ng.01.html
ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Jackson Custody: Deal or No Deal?
Aired July 14, 2009 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, mind-boggling news in the ferocious Jackson custody clash. Is Debbie Rowe`s bitter battle for the kids over? Reports say Rowe sealed a deal with the Jacksons, getting 4 million bucks to give up her parental rights, but her lawyer says that`s completely false. So deal or no deal? It wouldn`t be the first time the mother of Jackson`s two oldest children has cashed in on it. And where do these reports leave lightning rod grandpa Joe Jackson?
<snipped>
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a firestorm of controversy and conflicting reports, all about the custody of Michael Jackson`s three children. Is there a back-room deal? Are millions of dollars about to change hands?
The cover of today`s "New York Post" screams "Cash Cow!" A family source telling "The Post" that Debbie Rowe has, quote, "squeezed" four million bucks out of Michael`s mom, Katherine Jackson, this in exchange for giving up her parental rights. But Debbie Rowe`s lawyer objects. Objection! He wants a retraction. Attorney Eric George says to reporters, quote, "unequivocally false. There has been no agreement reached between Ms. Rowe and the Jacksons. Ms. Rowe has and will not `give up her parental rights`."
And "The New York Post" responds that it is standing by its story. Not a total surprise, given this isn`t the only report of a possibly custody deal. And if there`s truth to the speculation, it wouldn`t be the first of its kind, either.
According to published reports, Rowe`s reportedly got payout packages worth many millions in the past. Just today the TV show "Extra" released a new interview with Rowe`s friend who says another deal is in the works. So what is that deal? That same friend telling "Extra" that Debbie doesn`t want the kids.
Meantime, just hours ago the L.A. coroner`s chief investigator showed up at the office of Debbie Rowe`s former boss. We`re talking about Michael Jackson`s friend and his slash doctor, Arnie Klein. Investigators want to, quote, "look at the documentation he agreed to provide."
TMZ is reporting they were looking for more Jackson medical records, claiming Dr. Klein had not cooperating with the investigation, while the coroner today, well, he said he had been cooperating, but TMZ has a new report saying no, no, no. We`re going to get to it.
So much to talk about. And I want to know what you think about all of this. But first straight out to my fantastic expert panel: Michael Cardoza, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. He attended the Michael Jackson criminal trial. Firpo Carr, Jackson family friend and former Jackson spokesperson; Jim Moret, chief correspondent for "Inside Edition"; and attorney Dr. Reef Karim, psychiatrist and addiction specialist. Boy, we need you tonight, Dr. Reef. And joining me by phone, Stacey Brown, co-author, "Michael Jackson: The Man Behind the Mask."
Stacey, I want to start with you. You told us last night right here on ISSUES that a deal was in the works and even went into detail about there being no ban on Joe Jackson being around the kids.
So what do you make of this very, very clear letter from Debbie Rowe`s attorney with a vehement denial of a deal, essentially telling "The New York Post," "You`ve got to issue a retraction." "The New York Post" saying, "We`re sticking by the story."
STACEY BROWN, CO-AUTHOR, "MICHAEL JACKSON: THE MAN BEHIND THE MASK" (via phone): Jane, "The New York Post" should stick with their story. The only issue I have with "The New York Post" story is that they reported that Joe was not going to be allowed to be around the kids and my sources, and I tell you, Jane, they are impeccable sources, there`s no language in this agreement that prevents Joe from being around the children.
I also stand by my sources and, you know, I`m not a Jackson family source, but I have some great sources on this story, and they are impeccable. This deal is -- has been agreed to. It was agreed to over the weekend, verbally. And the only thing that is left, Jane, is for it to be signed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How much money are we talking about, in your opinion?
BROWN: From what I`ve heard from two different people, it`s anywhere from $3 to $5 million. And my guess is that it`s somewhere in between.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, I`ve got to say, we see that the attorney for Debbie Rowe has sent a letter saying this ain`t true. I want to read details of it. So I have no idea what the truth is. We`re just reporting both sides. We have an open invitation to Debbie Rowe. You come on and tell your story, girl. If you think we`re not telling the truth, we want to hear from you or your attorney. Anybody can come on. And we`re going to talk about this letter in a second.
I want to play a clip from CNN correspondent Randi Kaye, appearing on "LARRY KING LIVE" last night, talking about what her sources said about a potential custody deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are told the family certainly wants her to give up any notion of custody and any visitation rights, but apparently the family is also trying to work out some nondisclosure agreement. Our source says the family may even force Rowe to agree not to give any more media interviews.
As far as money, absolutely part of the deal. Seems like there is quite a large payoff, actually, in the works. Our source told us that Rowe stands to be paid, quote, "many millions" if she agrees to give up any contact and any custody with her two children so the singer`s mother, Katherine, can actually raise them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So Jim Moret, we`re talking "deal or no deal." Reading this letter, I want your analysis. This is the letter from Debbie Rowe`s lawyer, saying Ms. Rowe has not accepted and will not accept any additional financial consideration beyond the spousal support she and Michael Jackson personally agreed to several years ago.
First of all, they were divorced ten years ago. Why are they agreeing to spousal support several years ago? And do you think spousal support could be the euphemism that they use to refer to money continuing to change hands?
JIM MORET, CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, look, I`m reading the letter along with you.
It`s been reported, CNN has reported that Debbie Rowe agreed to around $8 million some years ago, but claims that she hadn`t received all of that money yet.
But this letter makes it very clear that she`s not seeking any -- look, it seems very specific. I don`t think spousal support is a euphemism. I mean, you`re right, the divorce was finished long ago, and as far as we know, there was no spousal support in that divorce document. So I think he`s backed himself into a box here with this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you this, Michael Cardoza. When she says she doesn`t want anything except the spousal support they agreed to, does spousal support continue beyond Michael Jackson`s death? Does that normally happen? And is it possible that she`s saying, "I`m not making a deal to walk away. No, I`m just making a deal to continue the spousal support"?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Keep in mind, I`m not a family law attorney, but you can agree to anything. If that`s the agreement that Michael Jackson and Debbie entered a while back, of course you can have spousal support continue after death.
But this thing -- on a level, I mean, I mumble because this is a mother that sold her children. And I know we talked about it earlier, but when these kids grow up, they are going to find out about this. Can you imagine the mental health bills that will be -- and the mental health issues that will come up, and the mental health that they will need, the type of help? This is just -- a mother selling her children really is beyond the pale to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dr. Reef Karim, these children seem very strong. They`ve seen a lot of bizarre things. They`ve had a very, very unusual dad, and sometimes what doesn`t kill you makes you stronger.
DR. REEF KARIM, PSYCHIATRIST AND ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Yes, I knew you were coming to me next. It -- yes, it comes down to this. In childhood development, any research done on developmental psychology always says the same thing: a secure attachment is what you need. The best interests of the children is what you need.
So if there already is a primary care giver, be it -- be it the grandma, be it the nanny, be it other people that are involved in their life, and if they don`t even call her "Mom," which is what it`s reported, then she`s not going to have as pronounced an effect. There still will be an effect, because she`s the biological mom. But it won`t be as severe as you think. If there are other primary caregivers giving them a stable attachment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, supposedly they call her Miss Debbie, Firpo Carr, but as I said yesterday, I`m sure that one Google search engine check will show these youngsters, who obviously have Internet access, what the real story is.
And that`s -- that`s where I think the real damage will come. When there`s a disconnect between what they`re being told by their caregivers and what the real world says out there.
Firpo, what is your take on this whole custody deal or no deal?
FIRPO CARR, FORMER JACKSON FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: Well, there are three things you want to keep in mind, Jane, and that`s, one, Michael Jackson loved his mother, and he told me that personally and in private. And guess what? He parlays that love to the children. So now, and I`ve seen it with my own eyes, the children especially love his mother. So that`s...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m asking about a deal.
CARR: Oh, the deal. I`m getting to that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, get to it. We`re about to go to commercial.
CARR: OK. Here we go. The barn doors are open; the cows are out. Debbie Rowe has already proven what type of woman she is. She takes money on behalf of her children. It`s that simple.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Then why even make a deal? Why not go to court and say, "Hey, judge, this woman shouldn`t get custody of the kids because of her past behavior."
CARR: Because it`s too obvious. It`s like, "Wow, I don`t want to go down in history as Debbie Rowe, as the woman who sold her children. I don`t want that to be my legacy."
CARDOZA: She is going down that way anyway. I mean, she`s got that reputation now. Why not get more money? She is what she is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hang on, gentlemen. More custody clash drama on the way. Deal or no deal? Do you think Debbie Rowe will fight for custody: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Let me know.
<snipped>
But first, Debbie Rowe reportedly fighting tooth and nail to get Joe Jackson out of the Jackson kids` lives. Michael Jackson`s friend and dermatologist told Larry King he, too, was worried about Joe`s influence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNIE KLEIN, JACKSON`S DERMATOLOGIST: I worry about the Jackson family only because I worry slightly about the father.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: What about the father?
KLEIN: He was very difficult to deal with, with Michael. They announced his new record label at the memorial, as you remember, and they see him more interested in making money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URI GELLER, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I screamed at him, and I used the words, "Michael, if you continue this, you will die."
CHERILYN LEE, NURSE WHO CLAIMS SHE TREATED JACKSON: He said, "Can you find me a doctor? I don`t care how much money they want. I don`t care what it is they want; I want this drug."
I said, "Michael, this is something serious. You don`t want to take this. You just don`t want to take this."
DEEPAK CHOPRA, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes, Michael Jackson was addicted. His addiction was darkened by and perpetuated by licensed M.D.s.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... investigator went to the office of Michael Jackson`s dermatologist, Dr. Arnie Klein, today. And we are getting word in from TMZ just now that Dr. Klein did not fully cooperate.
He -- Dr. Klein has said, "Yes, I fully cooperated, and I`m not even a focus of this investigation." But the assistant coroner who just went to Dr. Arnie Klein`s office telling TMZ, reportedly, that he went to the office because Dr. Klein was not cooperating fully, that they had asked him on July 2 for medical records, that he sent partial records, promised to send the rest later and never did.
And again, we`d love to get Dr. Klein`s side of the story here. He has said he`s cooperating and is not the focus of the investigation.
Jim Moret, what do you make of that TMZ report that the coroner went there to get records that they`d asked Dr. Klein to send over, and he didn`t?
MORET: Well, it`s clear that the coroner is interested in one thing: determining the cause of death. When they go to Dr. Klein`s office, they`re doing so because they want to look for additional records.
The assistant coroner came out, the deputy coroner, said that Dr. Klein has extensively cooperated. Those were his words. And I believe that while Dr. Klein wasn`t there, his lawyer was there. So this wasn`t a surprise visit.
But I also want to speak on behalf of Debbie Rowe, if I can, just for a sec.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.
MORET: Because you know, I don`t know her motivations, and I don`t claim to. But I will tell you that she is the biological mother, and under California law, she does have parental rights.
She may have felt Michael Jackson was the perfect father. The fact is, Michael Jackson is gone. Maybe she`s concerned because Joe Jackson has been making statements that troubled her over the past few days, like forming the Jackson 3 with Michael`s three children. Maybe she`s concerned.
CARR: He`s always reckless with his speaking, though. That doesn`t mean -- I doubt that you`ll ever see a Jackson 3, Jim.
MORET: And I`m just -- I`m just throwing out there the possibility that maybe she is concerned about those kids and maybe -- maybe -- she wants to have some part in their lives.
CARR: That may be true.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the shrinks say it`s multi-determined. You know, it`s a little, I want this, but a little bit that I could also do that, and I could also accomplish that.
CARR: Well, knowing the family as I do, I can guarantee you Katherine Jackson will not sign anything that keeps Joe Jackson out of the mix.
CARDOZA: Look at her Blanket`s mother. She`s completely out of the picture. Isn`t that a better situation for the children, instead of having Debbie Rowe come in and out of their lives, as the doctor talked about? As long as they have a parental figure to attach to, aren`t they better off in not being confused with the mother coming in and coming out?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael, you`re assuming that that mom will never come out. And I think that there`s fear in the Jackson camp, Stacey Brown, that that mom of Blanket, who we don`t have any idea who she is, will somehow emerge one day and say, "Look at me. I`m here."
BROWN: Yea, Jane, I`m surprised that we haven`t seen that yet. You know that there are bombshells after bombshells when you`re talking about Michael Jackson, and this is the one that I`m sure everyone is bracing for. This is the major earthquake that everyone is bracing -- bracing for.
And just to touch a little bit on what Michael Cardoza was saying, you know, Katherine has -- she`s also has raised other grandchildren, as we speak, so this is not anything that`s too much of a burden for her, just to set, you know, that record straight, if I could.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
BROWN: I`m not in contact with Katherine, but I do know that she is raising other grandchildren.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s get to the other phone lines. They`ve been waiting patiently. Debbie, Michigan, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Yes. Jane, I love watching your program.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: I would like to have someone explain to me what is the purpose of making a legal binding will with specific instructions and issues and yet not be honored?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, that`s a great question. Jim Moret, Michael Jackson specifically omitted Debbie Rowe from the will, specifically.
MORET: But Michael Jackson cannot take away Debbie Rowe`s parental interests in two of those children, because they`re biologically hers. So regardless of what it says -- and all it says in the will is she gets nothing, Debbie Rowe. And he wants his mother to be the guardian. However, Debbie Rowe still have a right to go to court and say, "Wait a minute. I`m the biological mom."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tica, North Carolina, your question or thought. Tica.
CALLER: Yes. My question is -- hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: I would like to know, does anyone know if Joe Jackson is suffering from a form of dementia.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey -- well, oh boy, Firpo. Firpo, you...
CARR: Joe Jackson -- Joe Jackson, that poor guy. And he`s a harmless guy. Yes, he doesn`t have the best judgment when it comes to saying certain things. But I`m telling you, I`ve got -- I`ve got to know Joe very, very well. And he is a good guy. Underneath all of the crass talking, and underneath all of that showboating, he`s a nice guy. And I can tell you, around his grandchildren, which
I`ve seen him a million times, he is a big teddy bear.
CARDOZA: I`ve got to tell you, I have defended a lot of people, and I`ve talked to serial killers.
CARR: Come on.
CARDOZA: And 99 percent of them are nice people, but it`s that 1 percent that you`ve got to be awfully afraid of.
CARR: Can I just say...
(CROSSTALK)
<snipped>
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight:
Reports emerging that Jackson family reality show finished shooting right before Michael Jackson died last month. The 1-hour A&E special entitled "The Jackson Family" -- good title -- followed Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Randy as they worked on a new album and reunion tour. No footage has been filmed since the "King of Pop" died and the Jackson sisters previously had no involvement with the show. What`s that about?
But all that could change since A&E hopes to spin off the special into a series. So could a revived version hit the waves in the future? No news of that yet but A&E reportedly hasn`t reached a decision on whether or not to air it, change it, scrap it -- who knows what`s going to happen. We`ll have to wait and see.
<snipped>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/14/ijvm.01.html
Joe Jackson just a big ol' teddy bear???? :groan:
vBulletin® v3.8.2, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.