Michael Jackson #4

[Roamer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_doctor

By KEN RITTER, Associated Press Writer Ken Ritter, Associated Press Writer – Wed Jul 29, 8:47 pm ET

LAS VEGAS – Michael Jackson's personal physician is more than $100,000 behind on his mortgage payments and could face foreclosure on the country club home authorities searched in their manslaughter investigation into the singer's death, records show.

Dr. Conrad Murray, 56, who has been dogged by money trouble, was racking up the debt when he went to work for Jackson in May.

Documents filed July 23 with the Clark County Recorder show Murray accumulated a debt of more than $100,000 plus penalties since January on a nearly $1.7 million loan on the mansion at the exclusive Red Rock Country Club.

Assessment records show his 5,268-square-foot home near the 18th hole of a golf course has four bedrooms, three fireplaces, a pool and spa. Its original sale price in 2004 was $1.1 million.

Murray's lawyer in Houston, Edward Chernoff, issued a statement acknowledging the cardiologist's home was in "pre-foreclosure" and blaming Murray's financial woes on his inability to make a living "as a result of this investigation."

"His hope is he can forestall foreclosure until he can once again begin working as a doctor," Chernoff said, adding that Murray was not paid for the two months he worked for Michael Jackson and concert promoter AEG.
AEG Live, the promoter of a now-canceled series of London comeback concerts for Jackson, has said the singer insisted the company hire Murray to accompany him to England.

Company president and chief executive Randy Phillips has said AEG advanced Jackson money to pay the doctor and had been negotiating to provide Murray a $150,000 monthly salary.

Mary Hunt, a foreclosure officer handling Murray's case for Stewart Title, said Murray stopped paying his $15,000 a month mortgage in January and could face foreclosure by November.

In addition, Murray's Nevada medical practice has been slapped with more than $400,000 in court judgments since 2008, and he faces at least two other pending cases.

Court records also show Murray was hit last December with a nearly $3,700 judgment for failure to pay child support in San Diego and had his wages garnished for almost $1,500 by a credit card company.

Murray told investigators he administered the anesthetic propofol to Jackson the night he died to help him sleep, according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

The official said investigators are working under the theory that propofol caused Jackson's heart to stop. Toxicology reports that should show what killed Jackson are pending.

Murray has not been called a suspect, and authorities say he is cooperating.

Chernoff has said Murray "happened to find" Jackson unconscious in his bedroom but "didn't prescribe or administer anything that should have killed Michael Jackson."

Warrants served at Murray's offices in Houston and Las Vegas show that Los Angeles police are investigating Jackson's death as a possible manslaughter case.

Officers also spent nine hours Tuesday searching Murray's medical office, Global Cardiovascular Associates but did not specify what was taken.

Chernoff, through spokeswoman Miranda Sevcik, confirmed a Los Angeles Times report that authorities sought prescriptions "administered, prescribed, obtained, transferred, sold, distributed, and/or concealed" to Jackson or various pseudonyms.

Names in the warrant included Omar Arnold, Paul Farance, Bryan Singleton, Jack London, Jimmy Nicholas, Blanca Nicholas, Roselyn Muhammad, Faheem Muhammad, Frank Tyson, Fernand Diaz, Peter Madonie, Josephine Baker and Kai Chase. It also listed Prince Jackson, the singer's 12-year-old son, as a possible alias.

Sevcik declined additional comment.

A Las Vegas attorney who has represented Murray on business and financial matters said she had no information on the matter.
"I have nothing whatsoever to add or subtract to the ongoing media frenzy," lawyer Puoy Premsrirut said in an e-mail.
___ Associated Press writer Juan Lozano in Houston contributed to this story.

[Firehead]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_doctor

By KEN RITTER, Associated Press Writer Ken Ritter, Associated Press Writer – Wed Jul 29, 8:47 pm ET

LAS VEGAS – Michael Jackson's personal physician is more than $100,000 behind on his mortgage payments and could face foreclosure on the country club home authorities searched in their manslaughter investigation into the singer's death, records show.

Dr. Conrad Murray, 56, who has been dogged by money trouble, was racking up the debt when he went to work for Jackson in May.

Documents filed July 23 with the Clark County Recorder show Murray accumulated a debt of more than $100,000 plus penalties since January on a nearly $1.7 million loan on the mansion at the exclusive Red Rock Country Club.

Assessment records show his 5,268-square-foot home near the 18th hole of a golf course has four bedrooms, three fireplaces, a pool and spa. Its original sale price in 2004 was $1.1 million.

Murray's lawyer in Houston, Edward Chernoff, issued a statement acknowledging the cardiologist's home was in "pre-foreclosure" and blaming Murray's financial woes on his inability to make a living "as a result of this investigation."

"His hope is he can forestall foreclosure until he can once again begin working as a doctor," Chernoff said, adding that Murray was not paid for the two months he worked for Michael Jackson and concert promoter AEG.
AEG Live, the promoter of a now-canceled series of London comeback concerts for Jackson, has said the singer insisted the company hire Murray to accompany him to England.

Company president and chief executive Randy Phillips has said AEG advanced Jackson money to pay the doctor and had been negotiating to provide Murray a $150,000 monthly salary.

Mary Hunt, a foreclosure officer handling Murray's case for Stewart Title, said Murray stopped paying his $15,000 a month mortgage in January and could face foreclosure by November.

In addition, Murray's Nevada medical practice has been slapped with more than $400,000 in court judgments since 2008, and he faces at least two other pending cases.

Court records also show Murray was hit last December with a nearly $3,700 judgment for failure to pay child support in San Diego and had his wages garnished for almost $1,500 by a credit card company.

Murray told investigators he administered the anesthetic propofol to Jackson the night he died to help him sleep, according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

The official said investigators are working under the theory that propofol caused Jackson's heart to stop. Toxicology reports that should show what killed Jackson are pending.

Murray has not been called a suspect, and authorities say he is cooperating.

Chernoff has said Murray "happened to find" Jackson unconscious in his bedroom but "didn't prescribe or administer anything that should have killed Michael Jackson."

Warrants served at Murray's offices in Houston and Las Vegas show that Los Angeles police are investigating Jackson's death as a possible manslaughter case.

Officers also spent nine hours Tuesday searching Murray's medical office, Global Cardiovascular Associates but did not specify what was taken.

Chernoff, through spokeswoman Miranda Sevcik, confirmed a Los Angeles Times report that authorities sought prescriptions "administered, prescribed, obtained, transferred, sold, distributed, and/or concealed" to Jackson or various pseudonyms.

Names in the warrant included Omar Arnold, Paul Farance, Bryan Singleton, Jack London, Jimmy Nicholas, Blanca Nicholas, Roselyn Muhammad, Faheem Muhammad, Frank Tyson, Fernand Diaz, Peter Madonie, Josephine Baker and Kai Chase. It also listed Prince Jackson, the singer's 12-year-old son, as a possible alias.

Sevcik declined additional comment.

A Las Vegas attorney who has represented Murray on business and financial matters said she had no information on the matter.
"I have nothing whatsoever to add or subtract to the ongoing media frenzy," lawyer Puoy Premsrirut said in an e-mail.
___ Associated Press writer Juan Lozano in Houston contributed to this story.

Murray's lawyer in Houston, Edward Chernoff, issued a statement acknowledging the cardiologist's home was in "pre-foreclosure" and blaming Murray's financial woes on his inability to make a living "as a result of this investigation."

You have got to be kidding. It took one month for his house to get to the foreclosure stage? Do we all look like we have "stupid" written across our foreheads?

[Sioux_Girl]

Murray's lawyer in Houston, Edward Chernoff, issued a statement acknowledging the cardiologist's home was in "pre-foreclosure" and blaming Murray's financial woes on his inability to make a living "as a result of this investigation."

You have got to be kidding. It took one month for his house to get to the foreclosure stage? Do we all look like we have "stupid" written across our foreheads?

He hasnt paid since January so..thats 5 or so months before Michael died even so kinda confused what Michaels death or his inability to get a job due to the media publicising his illegal activities have to do with anything.

[Roamer]

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8208598&page=1

After weeks of negotiations, Michael Jackson (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8170388&page=1)'s mother Katherine Jackson and his ex-wife Debbie Rowe (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8068547&page=1) have reached an out-of-court agreement that gives Katherine Jackson full, permanent custody of the pop icon's three children (http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/MichaelJackson/story?id=8030167&page=1), while Rowe will be granted "meaningful visitation rights," ABC News has learned.
A source with direct knowledge of the agreement told ABC News that under the agreement, Katherine Jackson maintains sole custody of Prince Michael I, 12, Paris-Michael Katherine, 11, and Prince Michael II, 7, also known as Blanket, while Rowe will have meaningful visitation rights and retain her legal parental rights.


(http://helpfindthemissing.org/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8170388&page=1)

Rowe and Katherine Jackson will split the cost of a child psychologist for the children, who have been living with their grandmother and their extended family at the Jackson family home in Encino, Calif., since Michael Jackson's June 25 death.


"The discussions were amicable and cooperative, rather than a give and take negotiation," the source told ABC News. "Both sides cooperated to reach agreement based solely on the best interest of the children."

Though it had been rumored that eldest Jackson sibling Rebbie Jackson, 59, may care for the children while Katherine Jackson retained custody, there was no mention of any siblings in the agreement.

The source also told ABC News that Rowe is the biological mother of Jackson's two eldest children, Prince Michael I and Paris. It had been reported that Rowe may not have been the older children's biological mother, something the source said is untrue.

Blanket, Michael Jackson's youngest child, was born to an unnamed surrogate after Jackson and Rowe divorced. "No money was sought or agreed to," the source said, "except that Debbie Rowe will continue to receive the spousal support that she and Michael agreed to when Michael was alive."

Lawyers for Katherine Jackson and Rowe plan to bring the agreement to Los Angeles Superior Court on Monday with the expectation that probate judge Mitchell Beckloff will approve it.

[SavannahStar]

You beat me to posting that Roamer!

I am so happy it turned out this way! :zm10:

[Alibar]

Glad to see the custody agreement is amicable.......... which might possibly stop the tabloids yammering about Rowe demanding money, although, it's doubtful anything will stop.

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/30/rowe-settles-custody-issues-over-jackson-kids/

Rowe Settles Custody Issues Over Jackson Kids

TMZ has learned Debbie Rowe has settled her custody issues over Michael Jackson's children and it doesn't involve a single penny ... but it does involve a shrink.

Sources tell us, Rowe has agreed that Katherine Jackson will be the guardian of Michael's children, subject to the judge's approval.

Rowe will get visitation of the two children she had with Michael.

But here's what's interesting -- Rowe wants and will get a psychologist who will visit the children and help them adjust to her being in their lives on a meaningful basis.Rowe will maintain her parental rights. We're told the agreement does not specify the amount of visitation.

[Roamer]

I think the psychiatrist/psycologist is an absolute necessity, and I'm glad Debbie got it in there.

I still wish Joe would have nothing to do with them.

[Alibar]

I think the psychiatrist/psycologist is an absolute necessity, and I'm glad Debbie got it in there.

I still wish Joe would have nothing to do with them.

ITA! Perhaps when reporters stop seeking him out for interviews, he will stay in Vegas where he stayed before Michael died and maybe is there still.

[texanne]

While I detest the way Rowe "sold" her children (IMO), I think it is more healthy for the children to know who she is. Wondering about her could be damaging to them. They need to be foremost in everyone's mind. I think this sounds like a good agreement. I can only imagine what is going through those children's mind.

[Ann]

While I detest the way Rowe "sold" her children (IMO), I think it is more healthy for the children to know who she is. Wondering about her could be damaging to them. They need to be foremost in everyone's mind. I think this sounds like a good agreement. I can only imagine what is going through those children's mind.

I don't agree that Debbie "sold" her children, and I think that's a bum rap that the media has sold to people about her. The children were not born under the usual circumstances. Debbie made it very clear that she had the children because Michael wanted to be a father and she loved him and wanted to do it for him. I think what complicated it was that Michael married her as well. IIRC Debbie was already pregnant when they got married. And IMO Michael married her for PR reasons.

Although I've read different things, I think one reason he divorced her was because she couldn't have any more children and he wanted more. I've also read that Debbie preferred a more private life.

Maybe some people believe that a woman who was married to a billionaire and bore two children for him should get nothing. I don't agree. Compared to the amount of of his fortune what she was receiving in alimony was a mere pittance ($8.5 million in installments I believe). The only time she took him to court was when he stopped her payments.

I guess some people would be happier if she had fought for custody, played tug of war with the children, and financially raked Michael over the coals.

I never did believe the stories about her negoitating with Katherine over money. Katherine has no say about her financial agreement with Michael. That is something the executors are in charge of. I always thought her negoitations were about increasing her visitation. She had very limited visitation per the divorce agreement--once every 45 days supervised by the nanny. After some of the things I've read about Grace, I now wonder if she had influence over Michael in the matter.

I'm not at all surprised that Debbie is retaining her parental rights while Katherine gets custody. It gives Debbie some say if she believes the children are being exploited by you know who or are not being cared for properly.

[Emyo]

I don't agree that Debbie "sold" her children, and I think that's a bum rap that the media has sold to people about her. The children were not born under the usual circumstances. Debbie made it very clear that she had the children because Michael wanted to be a father and she loved him and wanted to do it for him. I think what complicated it was that Michael married her as well. IIRC Debbie was already pregnant when they got married. And IMO Michael married her for PR reasons.

Although I've read different things, I think one reason he divorced her was because she couldn't have any more children and he wanted more. I've also read that Debbie preferred a more private life.

Maybe some people believe that a woman who was married to a billionaire and bore two children for him should get nothing. I don't agree. Compared to the amount of of his fortune what she was receiving in alimony was a mere pittance ($8.5 million in installments I believe). The only time she took him to court was when he stopped her payments.

I guess some people would be happier if she had fought for custody, played tug of war with the children, and financially raked Michael over the coals.

I never did believe the stories about her negoitating with Katherine over money. Katherine has no say about her financial agreement with Michael. That is something the executors are in charge of. I always thought her negoitations were about increasing her visitation. She had very limited visitation per the divorce agreement--once every 45 days supervised by the nanny. After some of the things I've read about Grace, I now wonder if she had influence over Michael in the matter.

I'm not at all surprised that Debbie is retaining her parental rights while Katherine gets custody. It gives Debbie some say if she believes the children are being exploited by you know who or are not being cared for properly.

ITA. And to add to the "...only time she took him to court was when he stopped her payments", it was also when MJ was facing criminal charges and could have very well ended up serving jail/prison time. During that time Rowe had her parental rights clarified by the courts. Maybe she was concerned about what would happen to the children if MJ was found guilty, rather than just the money.

Another thing, that article that is "exposing" Grace? Wasn't it written by Roger Friedman, who admits that he, as a journalist, supports Rowe? So we just take it all fwiw, imo.

[Ann]

ITA. And to add to the "...only time she took him to court was when he stopped her payments", it was also when MJ was facing criminal charges and could have very well ended up serving jail/prison time. During that time Rowe had her parental rights clarified by the courts. Maybe she was concerned about what would happen to the children if MJ was found guilty, rather than just the money.

Another thing, that article that is "exposing" Grace? Wasn't it written by Roger Friedman, who admits that he, as a journalist, supports Rowe? So we just take it all fwiw, imo.


It's not only Roger Friedman. This a September 17, 2007 article in People Magazine.

"For starters some Jackson pals and family members take issue with the children's nanny Grace Rwaramba, a former production-company office worker who is now taking care of and homeschooling the kids (see box). "She started out as this naive African girl, and now she is hell on wheels," says one longtime Jackson associate. Says another: "Grace calls all the shots when it comes to Michael. She brought in the Nation of Islam and its security guards. Grace is the queen bee."

According to several sources, Rwaramba is preventing some Jackson family members from seeing him—and from helping him with what many sources claim is an addiction to prescription drugs. Jermaine Jackson confirmed to PEOPLE on July 21 that he's worried about his brother's health. L.A. attorney Tom Mesereau Jr., who defended Jackson at his 2005 trial, says, "I was approached by the Jackson family" to stage an intervention for Jackson last year but did not participate. A source close to the family confirms the Jacksons did attempt an intervention in Las Vegas in 2006; three of Jackson's brothers were there and sister Janet was on the phone. "Michael got pissed off and said he wasn't on drugs," says one family source. Several people interviewed also agree that because of Rwaramba most family members are "cut off—there is no communication with Michael," says a source close to the family, who adds that Jackson's brother Randy is afraid Michael will die just like Anna Nicole Smith. "

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20060327,00.html

[texanne]

I am sorry, but no decent mother would have agreed to the vistation terms in the divorce. She agreed because of the money. No judge ANYWHERE would have come up with those vistation terms on a mother who had not harmed her children in any way. We have never heard that she harmed them, so the only reason the terms were there is because she and her lawyers came up with a settlement with Michael's lawyers....."gimme the money and I will turn the children over to you totally" My ex could have offered me the world, but he would not have taken my children away....period. She should visit them, but they belong with people they love and are familiar with. I think the media should stay out of the children's face....but it would be interesting to know how they are doing and who they want to be with.

[Ann]

I am sorry, but no decent mother would have agreed to the vistation terms in the divorce. She agreed because of the money. No judge ANYWHERE would have come up with those vistation terms on a mother who had not harmed her children in any way. We have never heard that she harmed them, so the only reason the terms were there is because she and her lawyers came up with a settlement with Michael's lawyers....."gimme the money and I will turn the children over to you totally" My ex could have offered me the world, but he would not have taken my children away....period. She should visit them, but they belong with people they love and are familiar with. I think the media should stay out of the children's face....but it would be interesting to know how they are doing and who they want to be with.

You're entitled to your opinion but I see nowhere that Debbie ever said "gimme the money and I will turn the children over to you totally". That is your take on it.

Unless you had your children under the same circumstances as Michael and Debbie, I think you're comparing apples with oranges.

IMO society hasn't yet come to grips with the recent trends in having children with sperm donors, egg donors, and women serving as human incubators, and is trying to impose traditional ways of looking at things that don't fit any traditional mold.

[texanne]

You're entitled to your opinion but I see nowhere that Debbie ever said "gimme the money and I will turn the children over to you totally". That is your take on it.

Unless you had your children under the same circumstances as Michael and Debbie, I think you're comparing apples with oranges.

IMO society hasn't yet come to grips with the recent trends in having children with sperm donors, egg donors, and women serving as human incubators, and is trying to impose traditional ways of looking at things that don't fit any traditional mold.




Maybe she did not SAY it, but actions speak louder than words. I understand completely about sperm donors, egg donors, etc. If you are saying that she considered herself simply an incubator, then her actions even make more sense. People usually do that for a certain amt. of money. I just do not see her as a traditional mother in any sense. So, I hardly understand all the blah blah blah about suddenly she is the mommy. The only reason I would think it is a good idea for the children to see her IF THEY WANT TO is for their mental health. A child in those circumstances has a lot of questions in their mind about their biological parents. I have custody of a 13 yr. old that is not a DNA match to me at all, but is being raised as one of my grandsons. He visits once or twice a year with his bio dad. The more people that have an interest in him, the better he feels. Would I ever consent to his living with that person?....No way on God's green earth. The reason shall remain unposted. And, you are absolutely correct....we all have our own opinions of these circuses in the news...and we are all entitled to them. It is what makes the world go round, LOL

[Sioux_Girl]

Maybe she did not SAY it, but actions speak louder than words. I understand completely about sperm donors, egg donors, etc. If you are saying that she considered herself simply an incubator, then her actions even make more sense. People usually do that for a certain amt. of money. I just do not see her as a traditional mother in any sense. So, I hardly understand all the blah blah blah about suddenly she is the mommy. The only reason I would think it is a good idea for the children to see her IF THEY WANT TO is for their mental health. A child in those circumstances has a lot of questions in their mind about their biological parents. I have custody of a 13 yr. old that is not a DNA match to me at all, but is being raised as one of my grandsons. He visits once or twice a year with his bio dad. The more people that have an interest in him, the better he feels. Would I ever consent to his living with that person?....No way on God's green earth. The reason shall remain unposted. And, you are absolutely correct....we all have our own opinions of these circuses in the news...and we are all entitled to them. It is what makes the world go round, LOL


I have a friend i talk to daily who has been a surrogate three times now. I asked her once if she found it hard giving the child up once it was born. She said no it was never her child and it belonged to the people she was having it for.

Actually i just asked her if the people she had the babies died would she even consider going for custody. She said no there no longer her children and it would be up to the extended family to look after them. The situation with Debbie Rowe is different in that she was married to Michael where she wasnt married to any of her surrogates but - to all extents that m arriage was just a business relationship anyhow.

MOO

[texanne]

Michael Jackson had IMO a strange way of doing things. Who knows why he did some of the things he did (marrying Rowe). That is something we can only speculate about. Perhaps some lawyer told him it gave him a more legitimate claim to the children....he would not have to adopt them, or have DNA test done. At any rate, it certainly has caused a huge circus and rabid speculations by everyone now. All the hoopla, I do not care about. I just hope the children are brought up in a stable, loving environment away from the glare of cameras.

[Ann]

Maybe she did not SAY it, but actions speak louder than words. I understand completely about sperm donors, egg donors, etc. If you are saying that she considered herself simply an incubator, then her actions even make more sense. People usually do that for a certain amt. of money. I just do not see her as a traditional mother in any sense. So, I hardly understand all the blah blah blah about suddenly she is the mommy. The only reason I would think it is a good idea for the children to see her IF THEY WANT TO is for their mental health. A child in those circumstances has a lot of questions in their mind about their biological parents. I have custody of a 13 yr. old that is not a DNA match to me at all, but is being raised as one of my grandsons. He visits once or twice a year with his bio dad. The more people that have an interest in him, the better he feels. Would I ever consent to his living with that person?....No way on God's green earth. The reason shall remain unposted. And, you are absolutely correct....we all have our own opinions of these circuses in the news...and we are all entitled to them. It is what makes the world go round, LOL
It does seem to me that Michael didn't seem to think that any of his children needed their bio moms around. I'm not going to sit here and say I relate to it because I don't, but heck, some people do a lot of things I can't relate to. :shrug1:

I don't see the condemnation toward Blanket's bio mom, whoever she is, as I do with Debbie, and who knows what arrangement Michael had there? Again I think making her into some kind of villain is a product of the media. I also think a lot of it is fueled by the fact that she's very average looking--and God forbid--a bit overweight. It makes her more of a target for Hollywood media.

I really don't know what people want/wanted Debbie to do instead. I've never heard/read of her saying anything bad about Michael. She has always said that she did what she did out of love for him and she thought Michael was a wonderful father.

I'm glad that she will be in the position of looking out for at least two of the children. IMO those children will need it. I'm also glad she and they will be able to reconnect.

She obviously IMO does care about the children's welfare as I think most people do with Joe Jackson around and IMO stepped up to the plate.

[Pauli]

It was Debbie that wanted the psychologist for the children, they really need one and I give her credit for wanting that done.. As for the visitation, the kids will decide on whether or not they want to see her.. it may be good for them to get to know their mother.. that way if anything should happen to Katherine they will know Debbie better and I believe she will put their best interests first... Even a convicted killer gets a second chance, she should have the chance to know her kids if she wants to. I don't see where she has done anything to harm them at all.

[texanne]

A child might feel abandoned by the mom if they feel the mom took money and agreed to give total custody to the dad....just saying. But yes...they should absolutely be allowed to see her if THEY want to. What the children want to do in this case is what counts. They must be made to feel their opinion is valued, and that they are respected by whoever is going to provide care for them. What a bizzare situation all the way around.

[Pauli]

From what they are saying on HLN she has had visitation with them these past years, but the kids do not know she is their mother. So they do already know her..

[SavannahStar]

From what they are saying on HLN she has had visitation with them these past years, but the kids do not know she is their mother. So they do already know her..

They know her; she visited them; but they didn't know she was their mother?

Huh?

:confused:

[Sioux_Girl]

They know her; she visited them; but they didn't know she was their mother?

Huh?

:confused:

I read that the children were introduced to her as "Miss Debbie". I dont know how true that is though

[Jute]

It was Debbie that wanted the psychologist for the children, they really need one and I give her credit for wanting that done.. As for the visitation, the kids will decide on whether or not they want to see her.. it may be good for them to get to know their mother.. that way if anything should happen to Katherine they will know Debbie better and I believe she will put their best interests first... Even a convicted killer gets a second chance, she should have the chance to know her kids if she wants to. I don't see where she has done anything to harm them at all.

I agree, Pauli. Whatever arrangement that Michael and Debbie had ceased to exist when Michael died; she is the childrens' only living parent. Speculation about her motives - past and present - will only harm the children. They are old enough to make decisions about Debbie when they learn the truth about who she is; I would imagine that will be confusing and difficult for them to understand. JMO

[sunstar]

Agreement reached on custody of Jackson kids

Michael Jackson’s mother will get custody of his three children, and the biological mother of the two oldest children will get visitation rights but no additional money, according to an agreement that will be presented Monday to the Los Angeles Superior Court for approval, which is expected.

As announced Thursday by lawyers for both sides of the agreement, the late pop superstar’s 79-year-old mother, Katherine Jackson, will be the guardian of his children — Prince Michael, Paris Michael and Prince Michael II, nicknamed Blanket, who range in ages from 7 to 12.

Debbie Rowe, the biological mother of Prince Michael and Paris (the identity of Blanket’s surrogate mother has never been revealed), will have visitation rights with them. The timing and manner of the visits will be determined by a child psychologist selected jointly by both sides. Rowe will not get any additional money beyond what she got in her initial agreement with Michael Jackson when she agreed to give up parental rights. On Thursday, NBC News’ Jeff Rossen reported that Prince and Paris have been told that Rowe is their biological mother.

more at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32216180/ns/today-today_people/

[Emmjay]

I agree, Pauli. Whatever arrangement that Michael and Debbie had ceased to exist when Michael died; she is the childrens' only living parent. Speculation about her motives - past and present - will only harm the children. They are old enough to make decisions about Debbie when they learn the truth about who she is; I would imagine that will be confusing and difficult for them to understand. JMO


I've been wondering if the "arrangement" could be considered a debt that the
executors would be bound to satisfy? In that KJ doesn't seem to dispute this, perhaps there was "something in writing?" Just wondering here.....

[Jute]

I've been wondering if the "arrangement" could be considered a debt that the
executors would be bound to satisfy? In that KJ doesn't seem to dispute this, perhaps there was "something in writing?" Just wondering here.....

I was only referring to any arrangement that MJ and DR had regarding the placement/living arrangements of the children. I do think that DR will continue to receive her monthly (?) payments through the estate. (JMMemory, no link :biggrin: )

[LiveLaughLuv]

Debbie Rowe, the biological mother of Prince Michael and Paris (the identity of Blanket’s surrogate mother has never been revealed), will have visitation rights with them. The timing and manner of the visits will be determined by a child psychologist selected jointly by both sides. Rowe will not get any additional money beyond what she got in her initial agreement with Michael Jackson when she agreed to give up parental rights. On Thursday, NBC News’ Jeff Rossen reported that Prince and Paris have been told that Rowe is their biological mother.

These poor children must be soooo confused. They know DR as Miss Debbie and not their mother. Daddy dies and now they find out Miss Debbie is actually their biological mother...I do hope these children will be given counseling for they need to digest all the information coming out to them...I hope this doesn't change the way they look at their father...what a mess for them...JMHO

[LiveLaughLuv]

Warrants for Jackson's doc call singer 'addict'
July 30, 2009, 4:59 PM EST
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Investigators probing Michael Jackson's death looked for evidence related to the powerful anesthetic propofol when they searched his doctor's Las Vegas home and business, according to search warrants filed Thursday that alluded to the pop star being an "addict."

Los Angeles police and federal Drug Enforcement Administration agents spent much of the day Tuesday at Dr. Conrad Murray's properties looking for evidence supporting a manslaughter charge and various violations of the California Business and Professions Code, including "prescribing to an addict," "excessive prescribing" and "unprofessional conduct."

The code states a physician cannot prescribe drugs to anyone thought to have a chemical dependency or who is using the drugs for non-therapeutic purposes.

The warrants, which had been sealed when the searches were conducted, also said investigators wanted all documentation relating to the "purchase, transfer, receiving, ordering, delivery and storage of propofol."

A law enforcement official earlier told The Associated Press that on the day Jackson died Murray gave him propofol to help him sleep and that investigators are working under the theory the anesthetic caused Jackson's heart to stop. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

more at the link:
http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=423585&gt1=28102

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/31/michael-jackson-propofol-dr-conrad-murray-died-houston/

Jackson Spent Last Hours in Doctor's Bed

The reports that Michael Jackson spent the last night in his bedroom are not true -- we've learned Jackson spent his last hours in Dr. Conrad Murray's bedroom ... in Dr. Murray's bed.

Multiple law enforcement sources tell us Jackson did not want people going in and out of his room, so he used Dr. Murray's bedroom for his IV Propofol. We're told Dr. Murray administered the Propofol to Jackson hours before he died, while the singer lay in Murray's bed.

Law enforcement believes Dr. Murray may have been using his room almost nightly to administer Propofol to Jackson. Emergency workers found an IV stand, an empty IV bag and oxygen tanks in Dr. Murray's room. And as we first reported, the Monday after Jackson died, cops found a stash of Propofol and other drugs hidden in a closet connected to Dr. Murray's room.

We've already reported Dr. Murray left the room at some point when Jackson was receiving an IV drip of Propofol and may have fallen asleep. Cops believe by the time he awakened Jackson's heart may have already stopped beating.

We're told Dr. Murray was not in Jackson's house during the day. He would show up in the evening and leave in the morning. Law enforcement believes the doctor may have regularly gone to Jackson's home at night to administer Propofol so the singer could sleep.

Law enforcement believes Dr. Murray could have discovered Jackson sometime around 9 AM the day of his death. One theory cops are working under ... after discovering Jackson either in distress or dead, Dr. Murray called two employees at his medical office in Houston and told them to go to his storage unit and remove certain boxes. Both women told TMZ Dr. Murray did not call them but cops are dubious. The stories of the two women conflict -- one says a box of dirty needles was retrieved; the other says she went to retrieve a chair.

As for what may have been in the boxes, law enforcement is investigating whether Dr. Murray had Propofol delivered to his Houston medical office ... possibly put in his storage unit ... and then FedEx'd to Los Angeles as needed.

Dr. Murray rented the storage unit April 1 and the staff went back on 4 different occasions before Jackson's death.

We know when the DEA raided Dr. Murray's Houston medical office, they seized a rolodex card with FedEx information.

[Trailblazer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090731/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_doctor

Money-troubled doctor found lifeline in Jackson

Dr. Conrad Murray needed a big payday when he became Michael Jackson's personal physician last spring.

The Las Vegas cardiologist owed at least $780,000 for settlements against his business, outstanding mortgage payments on his house, delinquent student loans, child support and credit cards. And that doesn't include the $68,000 the distributor of an energy drink says Murray, a one-time business associate, owes for skipping out on payments.

Court records chronicling Murray's woes in Las Vegas, where authorities searched his home this week as part of their manslaughter investigation into Jackson's death, help explain why — beyond basking in a celebrity's aura — Murray might have jumped at the $150,000-a-month Jackson's promoter was prepared to pay him to keep the star healthy through a series of concerts in London.

Murray hooked on with Jackson in May, as his bleak financial picture threatened to worsen. He already was under court orders to pay more than $363,000 for equipment for his heart clinic and $71,000 in student loans dating to the 1980s, a judgment that hit in April. Two lawsuits claiming he owes $240,000 more for unpaid equipment are pending in Nevada courts.

And Murray had appeared unable or unwilling to settle more modest debts — a nearly $3,700 judgment for not paying child support and two recent credit card company claims totaling $2,600.

Murray's 5,268-square-foot home near the 18th hole of a golf course offers no refuge — he's in "pre-foreclosure" after failing to make payments on his $1.66 million loan, records show. He stopped paying the $15,000-per-month mortgage in December and could lose the home by November, said Mary Hunt, the foreclosure officer handling the case for Stewart Title company.

Authorities investigating Jackson's death at his rented Los Angeles mansion believe Murray gave the star a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol to help him sleep, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. Propofol is commonly used for surgeries and is not meant as a sleep agent or to be given in private homes. Because of its potency, only trained anesthesia professionals are supposed to administer it and patients are to be constantly monitored.

Police have not labeled Murray a suspect but have said in search warrants they are seeking evidence he committed manslaughter and prescribed drugs to "an addict," an apparent reference to Jackson.

Murray, 56, has not spoken publicly since Jackson's June 25 death. His lawyer, Ed Chernoff, has said the doctor did not prescribe anything that "should have" killed Jackson.

Neither Jackson nor AEG Live, the promoter for the London concerts, paid Murray for the two months the doctor worked for the pop star, according to Chernoff.

"Dr. Murray has lost the ability to make a living as a result of this investigation," he said. "His hope is he can forestall foreclosure until he can once again begin working as a doctor."

Murray's financial background could become an important part of the case if prosecutors file charges, said Rebecca Lonergan, a University of Southern California law professor and former federal prosecutor of health care fraud cases.

"It does potentially provide evidence of good motive for financial-based crimes, including prescribing when there is not a medical necessity," she said.

Murray's cresting financial woes fit into a history of money problems. He filed for bankruptcy in California in 1992 and had a string of tax liens from Sacramento and San Bernardino counties as well as Maricopa County, Ariz., between 1993 and 2003.

Several years ago, Murray branched out, striking up a deal with John Thomas, distributor of an energy drink called Pit Bull. Thomas said in 2005 and 2006 Murray had the rights to distribute the drink in Trinidad and Tobago, the Caribbean island nation where Murray lived and worked before coming to the United States in the 1980s to study medicine.

The drink never gained popularity there. Murray paid his bill for a first shipment, then didn't pay for three subsequent shipments, Thomas said.

Though Thomas said Murray owes him $68,000, he remained friendly with the doctor and spoke briefly with him days before Jackson's death, when he invited Murray to the opening of a mixed martial arts gym in Las Vegas. Murray told him he was out of town and wouldn't be able to attend.

"You always think you know a guy," Thomas said. "All the dirt is coming out now."

[texanne]

I am not saying MJ was blameless for taking all the sleep and pain meds, but a medical doctor has the responsibility to "first do no harm". Since this doctor seems to be unable to even pay his mortgage, I doubt he has many resources. However, I predict a medical malpractice suit on behalf of the children. I am sure the good doctor has insurance...and I would imagine the insurance company is engaged in a big CYA program at this time. ahhh...the circus

[Alibar]

I think it's only a matter of time that news will come out about the number of times MJ went to the bathroom on his last day. Some source will devote an article to it with opinions included as to the looks of it since, of course, it would have been seen by someone in the house... possibly the cook. I say this because suddenly we are informed Michael was not sleeping in his own bed! And certainly that is significant. In what way, no one knows, but, someone will explain anyway. The irony lies in all the years it was published about who was sleeping in Michael's bed and now, in death, he was in someone elses.

[PatC]

"Dr. Murray has lost the ability to make a living as a result of this investigation," he said. "His hope is he can forestall foreclosure until he can once again begin working as a doctor."

From Trailblazer's post above ( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090731/...jackson_doctor )

It's beginning to look like that might be a V-E-R-R-R-Y long time....

Question: If a doctor is convicted of manslaughter based on some medical procedure s/he performed, can s/he EVER be licensed to practice medicine again?

[Ann]

IMO it is the doctors who bare the brunt of the responsibility.

Although not all lay people accept this, medical professionals know that drug addiction is a disease. And someone who is in the grips of addiction is acting in ways that person would not act were he not addicted. It's up to the doctor to draw the line and not acquiesce to the demands and manipulations of the patient suffering from addiction. An addicted person's judgment is impaired, and it's up to the doctor treating him to protect that patient from his own poor judgment to the degree that he is able.

As far as the Diprivan goes, I suspect Murray's defense will be that he was not feeding Michael's addiction but treating his insomnia by an albeit unorthodox means and will use the fact that it is not a controlled substance.

[Ann]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/31/michae...-died-houston/

Jackson Spent Last Hours in Doctor's Bed
************

Okay, now I'm totally confused. Wasn't there a report from an EMT at the scene that it was Michael's bedroom that was a mess with notes on the wall and all that?

Also why are officials leaking info to TMZ but don't want to be identified because it's an on-going investigation? Are these "officials" getting paid for their tips?

I think LA LE is really blowing their own case.

[Jute]

These poor children must be soooo confused. They know DR as Miss Debbie and not their mother. Daddy dies and now they find out Miss Debbie is actually their biological mother...I do hope these children will be given counseling for they need to digest all the information coming out to them...I hope this doesn't change the way they look at their father...what a mess for them...JMHO

I could not agree more, Luv. Then there is Blanket, whose mother has never been revealed. How will the knowledge that his older siblings are not full siblings affect him. This is a perfect example of what can happen when children are not told the truth about their parentage; most people don't anticipate their own early death and the children are left at risk of shock and trauma. JMO

[Ann]

I could not agree more, Luv. Then there is Blanket, whose mother has never been revealed. How will the knowledge that his older siblings are not full siblings affect him. This is a perfect example of what can happen when children are not told the truth about their parentage; most people don't anticipate their own early death and the children are left at risk of shock and trauma. JMO

You bring up an interesting point. Why didn't Michael want the children to know Debbie was their mother? Was he afraid that they would want a relationship with her? Blanket's mom is a different case. She wasn't married to Michael but Debbie was at the time.

I keep on thinking about how when Debbie delivered the children Michael said that he immediately took the newborns home and just left Debbie there by herself. It appears to me like from the get-go Michael didn't want Debbie to bond with the children and always wanted to be the sole parent.

He didn't seem to think his children needed a mother, which IMO is kind of odd since he was supposedly so close to his own mother.

Maybe he didn't want the complications of shared parenthood.

[Ann]

DEBBIE ROWE HAD SHRINE TO KIDSMichael Jackson's ex-wife Debbie Rowe reportedly made a shrine to their two children and kept a large number of photographs of the youngsters locked in a wardrobe.



Michael Jackson's ex-wife Debbie Rowe made a "shrine" to their two children.

The late pop star's former spouse is now desperate to have a relationship with Prince Michael, 12, and 11-year-old Paris after playing no part in their life, and has kept a huge collection of photographs and mementos of the youngsters sealed in a cupboard over the years.

Debbie's close friend and former lawyer Iris Finsilver said: "Debbie has always loved those children. One day I went into her closet and it was like a shrine with all these pictures. She said, 'I can't leave them out. When people come into my home, they steal these photographs.'

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/debbie-rowe-had-shrine-to-kids_1110453

[SavannahStar]

You bring up an interesting point. Why didn't Michael want the children to know Debbie was their mother? Was he afraid that they would want a relationship with her? Blanket's mom is a different case. She wasn't married to Michael but Debbie was at the time.

I keep on thinking about how when Debbie delivered the children Michael said that he immediately took the newborns home and just left Debbie there by herself. It appears to me like from the get-go Michael didn't want Debbie to bond with the children and always wanted to be the sole parent.

He didn't seem to think his children needed a mother, which IMO is kind of odd since he was supposedly so close to his own mother.

Maybe he didn't want the complications of shared parenthood.


Do we know it was Michael and only Michael who did not want the children to know Debbie was the mother?

[Ann]

Do we know it was Michael and only Michael who did not want the children to know Debbie was the mother?It does seem to me that he didn't.

He made it very difficult for her to visit them and put enormous restrictions on the visits--i.e. once every 45 days in a hotel room supervised by the nanny.

If she really didn't care about the children, why would she have cared about having any visitation with them at all?

[Ann]

Deborah Rowe vs. Michael Jackson in CourtThe pop star's ex-wife gave him sole custody of their two children, but an appellate court has ruled that her parental rights were not properly relinquished under the law By Adina Gheorghe, Entertainment Editor

16th of February 2006, 12:40 GMT

Adjust text size:


The California Court of Appeal rejected Michael Jackson's claim that Debbie Rowe gave up her parental rights. In the decision, there's a revealing passage from the trial judge who commented on the marriage between Jackson and Rowe.

"It was an arranged deal from the beginning... This was not a mom and dad saying, 'Hey, let's have a family that we're going to raise.'" The ruling explains that in October, 1999, while they were married, Rowe and Jackson entered into an agreement that Jackson would have sole legal and physical custody of their two children, Michael Jr. and Paris.

In 2001, the trial judge issued an order terminating Rowe's parental rights. But the following year, Rowe went back into court arguing that the court's termination order was invalid. The trial judge struck down his own order, admitting he had made a mistake by not appointing independent lawyers for the children. Now the California Court of Appeal has also ruled that the order terminating Rowe's parental rights was invalid.

Rowe is currently locked in a bitter custody fight with Jackson. In the appeal's court ruling, it states that Rowe took action to get the kids back "because of concerns arising from Michael's criminal prosecution and press reports Michael had associated with the nation of Islam, whose members Deborah believed do 'not like Jews.'"

The ruling continues, "Because she is Jewish, Deborah feared the children might be mistreated if Michael continued his association with the Nation of Islam."

Jackson was cleared of criminal molestation charges last year. Now that the appeal's court has ruled Rowe did not terminate her parental rights, Jackson has two options: appeal to the California Supreme Court, or do battle with Rowe over custody and visitation.

Rowe's lawyer, Eric George said: "It's a good day for Debbie. Now she can return to the court to seek an appropriate custody order."

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Deborah-Rowe-vs-Michael-Jackson-in-Court-18215.shtml

********************

It was right after this Michael left the country and started living in Bahrain. He didn't return to the U.S. until the end of 2007 and started living in Las Vegas.

[Ann]

Apparently the interview that nanny Grace gave shortly before Michael died in which she has been claiming she was used and misquoted is on video. Now Grace is trying to stop the video from being shown.

**********************
Jacko Nanny: Stop TV Sale of Interview
Friday, July 31, 2009
Celebrity, Music / By Roger Friedman
Tags: Michael Jackson



Michael Jackson’s infamous nanny has flown to London to try and stop the sale of her TV interview.

Grace Rwaramba, sources say, is begging international pay-for-play TV packager Daphne Barak from selling the interview they did two days before Jackson died.

Barak is famous for landing big “scoops” by allowing her subjects to participate in the lucrative TV sales of her interviews. On May 29, Rwaramba announced that she was starting a charity to help — vaguely — people in need around the world. Presumably, whatever money she made from the interview would help launch World Accountability for Humanity, with offices in the center of high-priced Beverly Hills.

Rwaramba was fired by Jackson a few weeks before he died. She did several interviews with Barak, all showing her bitterness about the situation. In the process, she sold out her employer of 15 years. If Jackson had lived to see the interviews, he would have been devastated by this last act of disloyalty.

Pieces of the interviews are up on Barak’s website.

But now Rwaramba has had a change of heart. Since Jackson’s death she’s worked her way into his parents’ home in Encino, and re-enlisted herself as the nanny. She’s disavowed the Barak interviews, and, insiders say, convinced Katherine Jackson she was somehow used by Barak.

The reality, however, is that Barak now has international buyers for the full interview, and the whole thing will be shown on TV soon. Barak has never had trouble selling to American TV — her pieces have turned up on all three major networks and Fox — so the chances are we’ll be seeing it soon.


For Rwaramba, the truth of her complicity in Michael Jackson’s downfall should come as a shock to the Jackson family. As I reported here yesterday, plenty of witnesses saw that during the 2005 child molestation trial she had a cot at the foot of Michael’s bed in Neverland. There was also IV equipment in the room. Jackson appeared in court nearly every day to be out of it or stoned, certainly subdued. He was often late for court and twice went to the hospital instead of showing up.

By the way, on Barak’s website she’s placed an email message she received from Rwaramba after they completed their talks.

“Daphne, I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but I will say it again, Thank you from my heart. Am so humbled and greatful [sic] for the opportunity to get a way and breathe nd clear my mind. I count this as a blessing thank you. for allowing God to use you to bless me. This is an answer to my prays. I pray that god will show me a way to make you understand my gratetude.”

http://www.showbiz411.com/jacko-michael-jackson-grace-rwaramba-daphne-barak?b7b1b638

[Alibar]

Sounds like part of Murray's defense could be "Well, Grace also gave him Diprivan!"
I guess Grace knew how to administer the dangerous drug since she didn't kill him. Just my opinion...

[texanne]

Do we know it was Michael and only Michael who did not want the children to know Debbie was the mother?

Some would want you to think that, LOL She had one child for him....he took that one. Then she has ANOTHER child....of course she knew what the deal was.

[Ann]

Some would want you to think that, LOL She had one child for him....he took that one. Then she has ANOTHER child....of course she knew what the deal was.I think it was Michael calling the shots in that regard.


It does seem that the times she thought her children were in some kind of jeopardy she's stepped up to the plate.

[texanne]

I think it was Michael calling the shots in that regard.


It does seem that the times she thought her children were in some kind of jeopardy she's stepped up to the plate.

It was her body producing those children....no way did she have to let anyone else "call the shots". It is not as if it happened only one time....she had two for him. There was never a custody fight over the children. Just her producing two babies for MJ...and taking the payoff. She is not a child, she was a grown woman, an intelligent woman with lawyers...she got what she wanted and so did he. She is not fighting for custody now....just vistation. It is none of our business, but I would bet that the contract between Rowe and MJ would be a very interesting...and revealing..read. All the speculation on the web now...including this forum...is just that...speculation and second guessing. And it all adds to the circus.

[SavannahStar]

It does seem to me that he didn't.

He made it very difficult for her to visit them and put enormous restrictions on the visits--i.e. once every 45 days in a hotel room supervised by the nanny.

If she really didn't care about the children, why would she have cared about having any visitation with them at all?


Well I can turn that around and ask if she really cared about the children why didn't she put up a bigger fight to see them more often? Certainly she had the money to do so. I know I read somewhere she hasn't seen them in YEARS! And if she really cared about them, and she must have known they only knew her as "Debbie" and not their mother, why didn't she fight that??? Good Lord, putting myself in her position if I knew my kids were not even told I was their mother, I would move heaven and earth to change that, there is no way on earth I would accept that!!!!!! :madranting94dp:

[Ann]

It was her body producing those children....no way did she have to let anyone else "call the shots". It is not as if it happened only one time....she had two for him. There was never a custody fight over the children. Just her producing two babies for MJ...and taking the payoff. She is not a child, she was a grown woman, an intelligent woman with lawyers...she got what she wanted and so did he. She is not fighting for custody now....just vistation. It is none of our business, but I would bet that the contract between Rowe and MJ would be a very interesting...and revealing..read. All the speculation on the web now...including this forum...is just that...speculation and second guessing. And it all adds to the circus.
First of all there was a custody fight as I have shown in a prior post. She filed for temporary custody during the molestation trial out of concern for the children.

Secondly please provide a link that she was paid off. She received alimony from their divorce. She could have gotten a lot more if she had gone for it since California is a community property state.

[Ann]

Well I can turn that around and ask if she really cared about the children why didn't she put up a bigger fight to see them more often? Certainly she had the money to do so. I know I read somewhere she hasn't seen them in YEARS! And if she really cared about them, and she must have known they only knew her as "Debbie" and not their mother, why didn't she fight that??? Good Lord, putting myself in her position if I knew my kids were not even told I was their mother, I would move heaven and earth to change that, there is no way on earth I would accept that!!!!!! :madranting94dp:

She didn't see them for years because Michael left the country. He left the country after she filed for custody.

"The lawsuit was a byproduct of the 2003 charges filed against Jackson alleging child molestation. Rowe, who had relinquished all of her parental rights to the children, changed her mind after Jackson's arrest, according to court documents.

"Everything changed," Rowe said in a declaration, and she regretted having given up her rights to see the children.

Rowe and the pop star were married in 1996 and she filed for divorce in 1999. The divorce became final in 2000. She filed to terminate her parental rights in 2001 and the court accepted her declaration in which she said, "Michael has been a wonderful father to the children, and I do not wish to share any parenting responsibilities with Michael because he is doing so well without me."

According to court documents, she said, "I want to forever give up any and all rights pertaining to the children because I believe that by doing so, it is in the children's best interest."

Before that, she said in documents, Jackson had allowed her visitation rights only if she went to distant locations such as Geneva and South Africa.

After Jackson's arrest in 2003 she filed for temporary custody alleging that she became concerned that during the criminal case, Jackson would be too distracted to care for the children. She also said she was disturbed by his association with the Nation of Islam, whose leader she believed was anti-Semitic.

"I am Jewish, as are — by definition — my children. I worried about how my children would be treated by these new advisers to Michael," she said.

Rowe testified for Jackson at his molestation trial, describing him as a loving and caring father.

She said in documents that she last saw the children in 2005 and had not seen them since Jackson left the United States shortly after his trial ended in acquittal on all charges. He has been living abroad since then but his lawyers continued to negotiate with Rowe.

On Sept. 6 a judge ruled that Jackson must pay Rowe $60,000 in attorney fees from the custody battle.

Jackson also has a third child, Prince Michael II. The boy's mother has not been identified"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,216717,00.html

[texanne]

First of all there was a custody fight as I have shown in a prior post. She filed for temporary custody during the molestation trial out of concern for the children.

Secondly please provide a link that she was paid off. She received alimony from their divorce. She could have gotten a lot more if she had gone for it since California is a community property state.


ahhh..."paid off"..again..LOL Looks like she just took another opportunity for a dip into the money. If she had been really concerned, she would have fought for them in the first place. Like I said, the papers signed between them in the first place would be VERY revealing. There is no telling what she agreed to get the money. IMO...kids are her cash crop.

[Ann]

ahhh..."paid off"..again..LOL Looks like she just took another opportunity for a dip into the money. If she had been really concerned, she would have fought for them in the first place. Like I said, the papers signed between them in the first place would be VERY revealing. There is no telling what she agreed to get the money. IMO...kids are her cash crop.

It doesn't look that way to me. I keep on asking this question of people who are condemning her for what they think she did and is doing and no one will answer. I'll try again.

What in your opinion should she have done instead?

[texanne]

It doesn't look that way to me. I keep on asking this question of people who are condemning her for what they think she did and is doing and no one will answer. I'll try again.

What in your opinion should she have done instead?

Oh, I think she should have had several more. LOL, sorry, Ann...I do not mean to upset you. It is just obvious to me that she is not going to get nominated for mother of the year, no matter what the spin. Good mothers do not turn their children over the second they are born, and walk away with millions of dollars instead of a baby in their arms. Just saying...MO..and all that.

[Ann]

Oh, I think she should have had several more. LOL, sorry, Ann...I do not mean to upset you. It is just obvious to me that she is not going to get nominated for mother of the year, no matter what the spin. Good mothers do not turn their children over the second they are born, and walk away with millions of dollars instead of a baby in their arms. Just saying...MO..and all that.

Ok, so I gather you believe Debbie should have fought for custody for the kids when they got divorced.

Or is it that you think she should have married Michael, had his children, and then walked away and not gotten anything.

Which is it?

[sunstar]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/31/michae...-died-houston/

Jackson Spent Last Hours in Doctor's Bed
************

Okay, now I'm totally confused. Wasn't there a report from an EMT at the scene that it was Michael's bedroom that was a mess with notes on the wall and all that?

Also why are officials leaking info to TMZ but don't want to be identified because it's an on-going investigation? Are these "officials" getting paid for their tips?

I think LA LE is really blowing their own case.
I'm curious who the "source" is and why this information is just coming out now, over a month since he died. Also, why the chef is just now coming forward this week with her story about Dr. M's schedule and what she normally saw and didn't see the day MJ died? It's not that I don't believe her, but it's just strange to me that this information didn't come out right after his death. :shrug1: MOO

[texanne]

Ok, so I gather you believe Debbie should have fought for custody for the kids when they got divorced.

Or is it that you think she should have married Michael, had his children, and then walked away and not gotten anything.

Which is it?

Actually, I do not presume to think anyone should do what I think is right. All I am trying to say is that a REAL mother always fights for custody of her children. Many men more wealthy than MJ have lost or had to share custody in a divorce. I would have fought like a tiger for mine. But then, I am not someone who had more than one that was immediately passed off to someone else, and then walked with the money. Just saying. All the specualtion and twists by The Rowe people will not change what went down. I suspect she is comfortable with the situation just as it is....and that is HER business.

[Ann]

Actually, I do not presume to think anyone should do what I think is right. All I am trying to say is that a REAL mother always fights for custody of her children. Many men more wealthy than MJ have lost or had to share custody in a divorce. I would have fought like a tiger for mine. But then, I am not someone who had more than one that was immediately passed off to someone else, and then walked with the money. Just saying. All the specualtion and twists by The Rowe people will not change what went down. I suspect she is comfortable with the situation just as it is....and that is HER business.

The way I see it is that Debbie Rowe is in a sense is neither fish nor fowl. She's not quite a parent in the traditional sense yet she's more than a surrogate. I think what complicated the matter is that Michael married her which confuses her role.

Since she was pregnant before she and Michael married (six months pregnant IIRC), I think it is more than likely that there was a surrogate contract prior to the marriage. When they married it changed her legal rights and status in regard to the children. And IMO that is the rub. She became their mother legally but originally was only to be a surrogate. I do wonder how their marriage would affect a surrogate contract if one existed.

Considering the circumstances I don't think that the fact that she let Michael have total custody necessarily means that she didn't care about the children and isn't concerned about their welfare.

As I said before, I think some people are trying to impose traditional values and roles on a non-traditional situation that doesn't fit that mold.

I also believe that some will be critical of her no matter what she does and cannot really articulate what her proper conduct should be because when push comes to shove they really don't know what that would be.

[PatC]

It doesn't look that way to me. I keep on asking this question of people who are condemning her for what they think she did and is doing and no one will answer. I'll try again.

What in your opinion should she have done instead?



I haven't kept up with this discussion... I don't read a lot about the furor over MJ and his strange lifestyle (death-style?). What little I have read over the years (and recently) leads me to answer your question in this way:

While I have nothing against Debbi's agreeing to be what was, for all intents and purposes, a surrogate mother. (IMO, it's possible that their marriage was a way to provide her more $$$ than it would be legal to give a surrogate.) it's my opinion that, having chosen that role... a surrogate mother who has fulfilled her part of the agreement by providing healthy children and received her remuneration (whatever it was), she should stick to the agreement and stay as out of their lives as Jane Doe down the street who acted as a surrogate to Mr. & Mrs. Smith the next town over would do.

Does that answer your question... which was, "What in your opinion should she have done instead?"

That's all this is.... my opinion which is, admittedly, based on very little knowledge of the circumstances.

[Tam5115]

I haven't kept up with this discussion... I don't read a lot about the furor over MJ and his strange lifestyle (death-style?). What little I have read over the years (and recently) leads me to answer your question in this way:

While I have nothing against Debbi's agreeing to be what was, for all intents and purposes, a surrogate mother. (IMO, it's possible that their marriage was a way to provide her more $$$ than it would be legal to give a surrogate.) it's my opinion that, having chosen that role... a surrogate mother who has fulfilled her part of the agreement by providing healthy children and received her remuneration (whatever it was), she should stick to the agreement and stay as out of their lives as Jane Doe down the street who acted as a surrogate to Mr. & Mrs. Smith the next town over would do.

Does that answer your question... which was, "What in your opinion should she have done instead?"

That's all this is.... my opinion which is, admittedly, based on very little knowledge of the circumstances.

In a lot of ways, Pat, by saying you have little knowledge, you've kinda got it!

As I understand it, Debbie volunteered to have children for Michael, plain and simple. From the beginning she did not think SHE would have these children once they were born. she knew full and well that these children would be Michael's, it was HER decision to do that, she wanted to do that for HIM! I just don't get why people don't understand this.

That doesn't make Debbie a monster by any means. In a way, she was much like a surrogate mother, but she married Michael, which surrogates don't do as a rule. From what I understand, and I don't have a link, Debbie would have still been married to Michael had she not wanted out. She wanted out because she wanted to do things like go to the grocery store without being followed.

This does not mean she doesn't care for the children. Of course she does, but she knew from day one that the children she gave Michael were going to be with Michael! That was the whole point! I didn't offer my hubby a child for HIM... I got pregnant and we had a daughter. OURS. Debbie offered Michael children for HIM.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Alibar]

TamTam, I think it's hard for some people to understand because of society's need for people to fit into little boxes designated for certain behavior. I also see nothing wrong with Debbie Rowe and her choices. She chose to do something she wanted to do and she did it. Just because a woman is a woman and is capable of bearing a child does not mean she is required to be a doting mother. I greatly admire those who do not knuckle under to what society insists we do, so long as no laws are broken. The people who disapprove are the citizens who do not approve of those who are different. Hooray for those who are able to do whatever they wish to do, whether society likes it or not.

[Tam5115]

TamTam, I think it's hard for some people to understand because of society's need for people to fit into little boxes designated for certain behavior. I also see nothing wrong with Debbie Rowe and her choices. She chose to do something she wanted to do and she did it. Just because a woman is a woman and is capable of bearing a child does not mean she is required to be a doting mother. I greatly admire those who do not knuckle under to what society insists we do, so long as no laws are broken. The people who disapprove are the citizens who do not approve of those who are different. Hooray for those who are able to do whatever they wish to do, whether society likes it or not.

Ali, I can say with all confidence that this is the most intelligent and profound thing you've ever said in my presence! (Geez, I hope you don't take offense to that) :girl_haha: From one who is often misunderstood to another, hallelujah!

Little boxes, on a hillside... yeah okay, sorry. Debbie is not a monster because she gave Michael children. It's unconventional for sure... but not criminal or immoral IMO.

I have always believed in Michael, always! I never believed he molested boys and I never will. I'm also sad that he's gone. a gigantic talent that we lost. A true gift.

As artists at heart (in my case) we can understand what the world lost. A true genius in music and dance. :000a1:

[Alibar]

Ali, I can say with all confidence that this is the most intelligent and profound thing you've ever said in my presence! (Geez, I hope you don't take offense to that) :girl_haha: From one who is often misunderstood to another, hallelujah!

Little boxes, on a hillside... yeah okay, sorry. Debbie is not a monster because she gave Michael children. It's unconventional for sure... but not criminal or immoral IMO.

I have always believed in Michael, always! I never believed he molested boys and I never will. I'm also sad that he's gone. a gigantic talent that we lost. A true gift.

As artists at heart (in my case) we can understand what the world lost. A true genius in music and dance. :000a1:

Thanks, Tam, certainly I'm not offended by your words....... heck, I agree! LOL

[Tam5115]

Thanks, Tam, certainly I'm not offended by your words....... heck, I agree! LOL

Phew! :0t31:

[PatC]

Well, this makes three of us.

[sunstar]

Well, this makes three of us.

Make that four! :smile:

[Ann]

Jacko Custody Deal: Joe Moves Out
Sunday, August 02, 2009
Music / By Roger Friedman
Tags: Michael Jackson


When the custody deal for Michael Jackson’s kids is filed tomorrow in Los Angeles Family Court, it will spell the end of Joseph Jackson living at the family’s home.

Part of the deal made by Debbie Rowe, the mother of the two eldest children, is that Joseph is gone for good from the Hayvenhurst Avenue, Encino, compound that he bought in the 1970s.

Rowe—as noted before—will allow Katherine Jackson to be the official guardian of the children for the time being. It was Rowe who suggested that a psychologist be involved in her meetings with the kids, Prince—whom she calls Michael—and Paris, while she gets to know them.

Rowe, who has a degree in psychology, is concerned, her friends say, that the kids not be manipulated or ”spun” after their meetings.

Rowe, they say, hopes to meet with Katherine Jackson immediately this week, and perhaps schedule the first the session with the kids before the end of this week.

It’s interesting to note that in the three years she was married to Michael Jackson, stayed at Neverland, and gave birth to two children whom his parents believed were his, Rowe never met Katherine or most of Michael’s siblings.

Rowe, by the way, receives no remuneration—no more money—from Jackson’s estate other than existing agreements from 2006.

She’ll have several things in her favor with the kids, who are of an age to understand a lot. Rowe has only been supportive and complimentary of Michael Jackson in interviews and statements. She came to his aid twice in the child molestation case, literally saving him in her testimony in 2005. She’s never sold an interview (except about her horses), or cashed in on Jackson’s scandals.

As for Joe Jackson, Rowe’s lawyers made his absence from the children a non-negotiable part of the custody arrangement. There will be no more talk of Joe the manager trotting out his grandkids as “the Jackson Three” or anything else like that.

http://www.showbiz411.com/michael-jackson-custody-katherine-joe-debbie-rowe

****************

This is interesting all the more since last night on his show Geraldo was claiming that he had just gotten off the phone with Katherine and was claiming she told him that there was no truth to the stories about Joe being separated from his family and that Joe never had never beaten Michael.

[Alibar]

To me, interest lies in what will come out after tomorrow, not in preliminary reports. If it reveals that Joe is actually out after tomorrow, then we will know what Katherine told Geraldo is not true.

[Trailblazer]

http://www.rosespeaks.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&op=getit&lid=2304

Jackson Family Goes Italian

The parents of Michael Jackson -- Joe and Katherine -- along with his brother Randy, enjoyed a nice dinner at Madeo in West Hollywood last night.

We asked the usually chatty Joe if he -- like La Toya -- believes in a conspiracy theory regarding Michael's death. He was surprisingly quiet.

[Ann]

39 days later and Michael still isn't buried. :girl_sad:

[Roamer]

I don't believe a word out of Geraldo's mouth.

I hope the custody agreement is as the article said. Joe should have nothing but supervised visitation with the kids, IMO.

[Ann]

IMO if Joe and friends keep on implying AEG murdered Michael like they were doing last night on Geraldo, some people are going to get themselves sued.

[Trailblazer]

39 days later and Michael still isn't buried. :girl_sad:

Sad isn't it....unbelievable if you ask me..Someone should make the decision and get Michael buried already...Good Golly..

[sunstar]

(snipped for space)

http://www.showbiz411.com/michael-jackson-custody-katherine-joe-debbie-rowe

****************

This is interesting all the more since last night on his show Geraldo was claiming that he had just gotten off the phone with Katherine and was claiming she told him that there was no truth to the stories about Joe being separated from his family and that Joe never had never beaten Michael.
From what I understood, Joe J. had been living in Las Vegas anyway, and he isn't separated from his family ~ all the adult children and their kids can see him whenever they want to. I don't remember Geraldo quoting Katherine as actually saying he wasn't separated from MJ's three children. And according to Geraldo she seemed to dismiss the accusations of MJ being beaten as "39 years ago". Also interesting was that Geraldo said Katherine didn't want the coversation played on tv, whereas he actually did play his conversation with Joe ~ more of which will be on his show tonight. :shrug1: MOO

[sunstar]

Sad isn't it....unbelievable if you ask me..Someone should make the decision and get Michael buried already...Good Golly..

Maybe he is and we just don't know about it to keep the location a secret? MOO

[Alibar]

Maybe he is and we just don't know about it to keep the location a secret? MOO

That's what I've thought for quite awhile... The public doesn't need to know.

[Ann]

From what I understood, Joe J. had been living in Las Vegas anyway, and he isn't separated from his family ~ all the adult children and their kids can see him whenever they want to. I don't remember Geraldo quoting Katherine as actually saying he wasn't separated from MJ's three children. And according to Geraldo she seemed to dismiss the accusations of MJ being beaten as "39 years ago". Also interesting was that Geraldo said Katherine didn't want the coversation played on tv, whereas he actually did play his conversation with Joe ~ more of which will be on his show tonight. :shrug1: MOO

It was really hard to understand Joe on the phone, but I gather that Joe is saying that AEG had an insurance policy on Michael that covered death by overdose therefore it was a motive for murder--implied by Joe. The thing is that the policy was for $17.5 million and AEG had already spent $25-30 million on Michael, so even with the insurance they were still $7.5-12.5 million in the hole. I could see that with Michael's history they would want overdose covered. I don't see any real financial advantage to AEG. Even with the sale of the rehearsal video which is reported at $60 million, AEG only gets 10% ($6 million) while Michael's estate gets 90% ($54 million).

"AEG -- MJ Concert Insurance Covered Overdose
Posted Jul 3rd 2009 11:30AM by TMZ Staff

AEG took out a hefty insurance policy in case Michael Jackson's 50 London concerts fell through -- turns out the policy covered an MJ overdose.

AEG's chief executive Randy Phillips said the $17.5 million insurance policy from Lloyd's of London didn't cover a death from natural causes.

Phillips said the policy would still fall short of the money spent on Jackson's advance, producing the show, covering some of MJ's debts and paying his staff and rent -- which cost between $25 and $30 million."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/03/aeg-mj-concert-insurance-covered-overdose/

[PatC]

Does anybody know how many people, family + "retainers" were living in the residence where MJ died? I'm just curious why anyone could need a $150,000 per month rental house. Especially someone who supposedly was short on $$$.

[Ann]

Michael Jackson Phone Call Talk about his Father Joseph (among other things) part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5srrwnGhUqs

[Ann]

Michael Jackson Phone Call Talk about his Father Joseph part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DqIJuyFn98&feature=related

Michael Jackson - Phone Conversation 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz0bH_J9kDs&feature=related

[Alibar]

So this Glenda taped a phone call with Michael? She's supposed to be a friend? Not much of a friend, eh? I listened to the first one, which was nothing but small talk. I have a feeling it was nearly impossible for him to really have a friend who had no ulterior motives... perhaps a brother.... maybe. I read somewhere that's one reason he liked children. They would tell him the truth.

[Ann]

Michael Jackson - Phone Conversation 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsH7QLNVnNY

[SavannahStar]

Can someone give a quick gist of the phone calls? Pretty please? TIA.

[Alibar]

Glenda: What are you doing tomorrow?
Michael: I dunno. What are you doing?
Glenda: I dunno...

I only listened to the first one and what I'm posted above is not much different from actual contents. In other words... contains nothing...

[Ann]

I do have mixed feelings about the phone calls. In one way it is an invasion of privacy. On the other hand they do address some issues about Michael that he's no longer here to address himself and you hear him speak in his own words.

[Alibar]

Oh, well, I'm just having a bit of fun with it on a long Sunday afternoon, mainly because the first tape contained nothing. ))))))))) Perhaps the others have significant info. (But, it's doubtful!)

[SavannahStar]

Glenda: What are you doing tomorrow?
Michael: I dunno. What are you doing?
Glenda: I dunno...

I only listened to the first one and what I'm posted above is not much different from actual contents. In other words... contains nothing...

Okay...... :biggrin: Thanks, Ali. I don't really have time to listen. Just wondering if there was anything earth-shattering. Guess not! :happy0207:

[Emyo]

Well, the tapes seal Joe's fate in my mind. "Loved" how Michael changed his voice to sound like his dad. I think it was on the 1st tape where Michael is telling about Joseph calling him on Father's Day and asking for a half a million dollars. And how Michael owed everything he was to Joseph. MJ more or less laughs it all off. The being on the road and the girls in the rooms was sad. Sounds to me like a father without a conscious, or morals. And a piss poor role-model. But this is just my take from listening in on these conversations.
jmo

[Ann]

Oh, well, I'm just having a bit of fun with it on a long Sunday afternoon, mainly because the first tape contained nothing. ))))))))) Perhaps the others have significant info. (But, it's doubtful!)

It doesn't seem like you're hearing the same recordings that I am.

Anyway, one thing that I've haven't heard before is how Michael stood up to Joe when he was a kid.

I can really relate to Michael in that. I was the only one in my family that stood up to my abusive father too. My mom and my siblings were all too afraid of him to do that.

Both of my parents have passed, but I'm sure if anyone asked them if my father was abusive, they both would have said, "no". It's not that they would have being lying, but they both would have been in denial about it. Abusers and their enablers tend to be in denial and minimize the abuse. I have a feeling that's what maybe going on with Joe and Katherine.

[Alibar]

It doesn't seem like you're hearing the same recordings that I am.

Anyway, one thing that I've haven't heard before is how Michael stood up to Joe when he was a kid.

I can really relate to Michael in that. I was the only one in my family that stood up to my abusive father too. My mom and my siblings were all too afraid of him to do that.

Both of my parents have passed, but I'm sure if anyone asked them if my father was abusive, they both would have said, "no". It's not that they would have being lying, but they both would have been in denial about it. Abusers and their enablers tend to be in denial and minimize the abuse. I have a feeling that's what maybe going on with Joe and Katherine.

In years past, I heard Michael say his father beat him. I don't need to hear it again. I believed it back then and I believe it now. I was also beaten when I was growing up, so I relate. I also understand Katherine saying it was 39 years ago... which doesn't make it less real to the one it happened to. Had I reminded my mother of the beatings, she would have been very annoyed. I didn't remind her, but, I didn't forget either.

Are you saying there is significant information in the remaining tapes which make them important to listen to?

[Ann]

Well, the tapes seal Joe's fate in my mind. "Loved" how Michael changed his voice to sound like his dad. I think it was on the 1st tape where Michael is telling about Joseph calling him on Father's Day and asking for a half a million dollars. And how Michael owed everything he was to Joseph. MJ more or less laughs it all off. The being on the road and the girls in the rooms was sad. Sounds to me like a father without a conscious, or morals. And a piss poor role-model. But this is just my take from listening in on these conversations.
jmo

IMO the reason Michael was able to go on and have as big of a career as he did was because he did break away from Joe. Michael talks about how Joe always screwed up business dealings.

[Ann]

In years past, I heard Michael say his father beat him. I don't need to hear it again. I believed it back then and I believe it now. I was also beaten when I was growing up, so I relate. I also understand Katherine saying it was 39 years ago... which doesn't make it less real to the one it happened to. Had I reminded my mother of the beatings, she would have been very annoyed. I didn't remind her, but, I didn't forget either.

Are you saying there is significant information in the remaining tapes which make them important to listen to?

No one is forcing you to listen to it. I think some of us are interested even if you're not.

[Emyo]

It doesn't seem like you're hearing the same recordings that I am.

Anyway, one thing that I've haven't heard before is how Michael stood up to Joe when he was a kid.

I can really relate to Michael in that. I was the only one in my family that stood up to my abusive father too. My mom and my siblings were all too afraid of him to do that.

Both of my parents have passed, but I'm sure if anyone asked them if my father was abusive, they both would have said, "no". It's not that they would have being lying, but they both would have been in denial about it. Abusers and their enablers tend to be in denial and minimize the abuse. I have a feeling that's what maybe going on with Joe and Katherine.

I had read that before. Brother Tito talks about it in this article. It does put a kind of "funny" twist to it, imo. And I too know that there is nothing "funny" about abusive men.

From correspondents in London | July 17, 2009
Article from: Agence France-Presse

POP legend Michael Jackson used to escape beatings from his father when he was a child by swiftly dodging and weaving his way to safety, his brother Tito Jackson says.

Tito said that the future King of Pop's footwork was so fast and so good that his belt-wielding father Joe Jackson was often reduced to laughter in efforts to catch him.

"Most of the time Michael was so quick my father couldn't hit him,'' Tito told London's Daily Mirror newspaper.

"He'd swing the belt and Michael would be over there, he'd swing again and Michael would be over here.

"My father used to just stop and laugh because he couldn't hit him.

"Michael would just dance around him. My father would get tired and give up."



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25795402-12335,00.html

[Ann]

I had read that before. Brother Tito talks about it in this article. It does put a kind of "funny" twist to it, imo. And I too know that there is nothing "funny" about abusive men.

From correspondents in London | July 17, 2009
Article from: Agence France-Presse

POP legend Michael Jackson used to escape beatings from his father when he was a child by swiftly dodging and weaving his way to safety, his brother Tito Jackson says.

Tito said that the future King of Pop's footwork was so fast and so good that his belt-wielding father Joe Jackson was often reduced to laughter in efforts to catch him.

"Most of the time Michael was so quick my father couldn't hit him,'' Tito told London's Daily Mirror newspaper.

"He'd swing the belt and Michael would be over there, he'd swing again and Michael would be over here.

"My father used to just stop and laugh because he couldn't hit him.

"Michael would just dance around him. My father would get tired and give up."



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25795402-12335,00.html
Well, it sounds like Tito was trying to make it sound like all fun and games. I don't think it was funny the times Joe caught him. In an interview Michael did talk about running away so his father couldn't catch him. He also said that it was really bad when Joe did catch him, and there were times when Katherine pleaded for Joe to stop saying he was killing him.

I was talking more about when Michael told Joe he wouldn't perform if he hit him. Running away is not really standing up to him while refusing to perform is.

[Ann]

BTW another poster is saying she accidentally found the phone calls on youtube while looking for something else. Apparently it wasn't Glenda who recorded the calls. It was her husband who recorded them without her knowledge (He didn't trust her I guess). Anyway, the recordings were used at Michael's trial in his defense.

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/03/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-storage-unit-facility-public-propofol-stacey-howe/


Another Storage Unit Rented by Jackson Doc

We've learned Dr. Conrad Murray has a storage unit in Las Vegas -- and there seems to be a growing connection between the doctor's storage rentals in Vegas and Houston.

Dr. Murray has a 10x20 unit at a Public Storage facility in Las Vegas. We've learned an employee of Dr. Murray's came to the unit as recently as July 30 with Dr. Murray's credit card number on a piece of paper and paid the rental fee. We do not know if items were removed or stored at that time. Dr. Murray missed the July 15 deadline to make payment and he was charged a late fee.

We're told one of the four people authorized on Dr. Murray's behalf to come and go at the facility is Stacey Howe -- someone who figured prominently when Dr. Murray's Houston storage unit was raided last month. Federal agents seized correspondence addressed to Stacey Howe, and we're told the agents asked the manager of the storage facility if she knew of Howe.

When agents raided Dr. Murray's Houston medical practice, they seized two Yahoo e-mails from Stacey Howe.

Law enforcement believes Dr. Murray may have had Propofol -- the drug they believe killed Michael Jackson -- stored in the various storage units for shipment to the singer, though as far as we know they do not have proof ... at least not yet.

We do not know if the Vegas storage unit has been searched pursuant to a warrant.

[LiveLaughLuv]

Katherine Jackson Breaks Her SilenceEntertainment Tonight,
August 3, 2009
Related: Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson

Entertainment Tonight. In the first interview since her son's death, Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine Jackson, is speaking out about the loss of her son and the rumors surrounding her family.

In a phone interview that aired on Sunday Night's "Geraldo at Large" on the Fox News Channel, the 79-year-old shot down rumors that her husband, Joe Jackson, is banned from seeing the grandchildren, and banned from the Jackson home.

"I don't know why they're saying he's not being allowed in the house," Katherine says. "My husband's never done nothing of the sort that they trying to say he did 39 years ago. I don't understand that, and I just believe it's something that they cooked up."

When asked if Joe was a good grandfather she replied, "Of course he is. And the children will tell you that he is."

Katherine also spoke out on the accusations and pending investigation surrounding Dr. Conrad Murray in relation to her son's death.

"All I know is that my son is dead, and I don't think he just died of natural causes or whatever," she says.

He's too young for that. Something happened, I don't know what it was and I can't say."

The mother of nine was reluctant to talk at length about her three grandchildren, Prince Michael, Paris Michael, Prince Michael II (Blanket), but she did tell the talk show host, "The children are doing fine."
http://wonderwall.msn.com/movies/Celebrity-Modelizers-3573.gallery?GT1=28148#m=RkhTH2mE1aj&wallState=0__/music/katherine-jackson-breaks-her-silence-1519084.story

[Ann]

TMZ is going to have a live stream of the probate hearing today. I don't know if it is going to be in the courtroom or just outside the court house.

I think the hearing starts at 8:30 a.m. pacific time.

[Trailblazer]

TMZ is going to have a live stream of the probate hearing today. I don't know if it is going to be in the courtroom or just outside the court house.

I think the hearing starts at 8:30 a.m. pacific time.

Thanks Ann...going there now :0012:

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/03/money-custody-on-line-in-jackson-hearing/

Money, Custody on Line in Jackson Hearing

**KEEP REFRESHING FOR THE LATEST UPDATES**

Edit - 11:56 AM ET -- Katherine, Randy and La Toya were escorted upstairs to the court room. La Toya is wearing a black jacket, slacks, and a white blouse. Katherine is wearing a brown suit, looking calm ... and chewing gum.

11:46 AM ET -- Randy just showed up.

11:45 AM ET -- Katherine and the lawyers are inside the courtroom. Two of Michael's sisters and one brother are also expected. The hearing is expected to begin shortly.

[Trailblazer]

12:00 ET Rebbie Jackson -- Michael's older sister -- has just showed up. We're told, day to day, she'll be the one taking care of Michael's kids.

[Trailblazer]

12:14 The judge is on the bench. He'll be dealing with the guardianship settlement between Katherine and Debbie Rowe first.

[Trailblazer]

12:17 Get this. Mark Vincent Kaplan (K-Fed's lawyer) just showed up on behalf of Dr. Arnold Klein. Kaplan says Klein has a long-standing commitment to Michael Jackson and has concerns about Joe Jackson being involved with the children. There are reports Klein is the father, but he hasn't confirmed or denied.

12:18 The judge wants to know what legal standing Klein has -- this could force the issue over whether he's the daddy.

12:24 -- The judge just said Klein has no legal standing to lodge an objection ... that Michael Jackson and Debbie Rowe are the parents.

12:26 -- Debbie Rowe's lawyer, Eric George, just said he won't object to Katherine being appointed temporary guardian, but permanent guardianship could be delayed. It's curious given the supposed settlement between Debbie and Katherine.

[Trailblazer]

2:37 -- The judge just named Katherine permanent guardian of all three kids.


12:41 -- The lawyers are now discussing the allowance for Jackson's three kids.

12:40 -- Debbie Rowe will have visitation rights with her two kids and will continue getting spousal support based on the agreement she struck with Michael several years ago.

12:39 -- The granted Katherine a financial allowance for 6 months retro from the time Michael died. The amount of the allowance wasn't discussed in open court.

[Trailblazer]

12:42 The judge has just tentatively granted 83.5% of what was requested for the children's allowance. Specific amounts were not discussed.

[Texas53]

Katherine Jackson stated on Geraldo that she and Joe are not separated.

I hate to hear that Joe Jackson will be any part of these kids life. If he has it his way, he will have the Jackson 3 on tour as soon as he can. JMHO

[Trailblazer]

1:03 -- The judge has called for a 30-minute break.

12:55 -- The judge decided on the lesser amount because of concerns about duplicate expenses with for the monthly allowance approved for Katherine.

[Sioux_Girl]

Bearing in mind..i dont know your rules..

Just supposing Klein IS the biological father isnt this kinda unethical where Michael is the patient of this guy and the Dr and his nurse between them provide a baby for him?

[Ann]

Bearing in mind..i dont know your rules..

Just supposing Klein IS the biological father isnt this kinda unethical where Michael is the patient of this guy and the Dr and his nurse between them provide a baby for him?

Why would that be unethical?

[Sioux_Girl]

Why would that be unethical?

Its not normally a service a Dr provides? Or at least not over here its not.

[Ann]

Its not normally a service a Dr provides? Or at least not over here its not.
I believe he and Michael were also friends. It's not unusual for friends to donate sperm.


If the presence of Klein's lawyer at the hearing indicates Klein is the bio dad of the 2 oldest, it makes me sad because it gives some weight to the story about Joe kicking Michael in the groin and making him sterile. I was hoping that wasn't true and Joe really hadn't done that to him.

[Sioux_Girl]

I believe he and Michael were also friends. It's not unusual for friends to donate sperm.


If the presence of Klein's lawyer at the hearing indicates Klein is the bio dad of the 2 oldest, it makes me sad because it gives some weight to the story about Joe kicking Michael in the groin and making him sterile. I was hoping that wasn't true and Joe really hadn't done that to him.

The problem though - IMO at least that Michael should have not been so close to the Drs as he was. Because he got so close to him..imo that didnt make the normal DR - Patient relationship that most of us have and made it easier to obtain things he shouldnt have maybe.

No its not unusual for friends to donate sperm. But i have to ask myself what kind of Dr (IF he is the father) would get close enough to a patient to give a sperm donation to him especially knowing all the problems he had. Here he would get in serious trouble for doing that. MOO

[Ann]

The problem though - IMO at least that Michael should have not been so close to the Drs as he was. Because he got so close to him..imo that didnt make the normal DR - Patient relationship that most of us have and made it easier to obtain things he shouldnt have maybe.

No its not unusual for friends to donate sperm. But i have to ask myself what kind of Dr (IF he is the father) would get close enough to a patient to give a sperm donation to him especially knowing all the problems he had. Here he would get in serious trouble for doing that. MOO
There's nothing necessarily wrong with a doctor being friends with a patient. When I was a kid our family doctor grew up with my dad and they were friends too.

The problem would only come in if the friendship compromised good medical treatment. IMO that still remains to be seen in Klein's case.

Even though Michael may have had problems, it does seem he was a good father.

[Sioux_Girl]

There's nothing necessarily wrong with a doctor being friends with a patient. When I was a kid our family doctor grew up with my dad and they were friends too.

The problem would only come in if the friendship compromised good medical treatment. IMO that still remains to be seen in Klein's case.

Even though Michael may have had problems, it does seem he was a good father.

I dont disagree he seemed a good father although i kinda wonder how much its been down to him and how much down to the nanny as to how the children have turned out. At least if all the reports of the amount of pills is true that he was supposedly on.

[Texas53]

Excluding sperm donations, when it comes to a patient doctor relationship, there should be boundaries. You can't mix friendship and business, or in this case doctor/patient/friendship. It just doesn't work. Sooner or later someone gets hurt. JMHO

[Ann]

I dont disagree he seemed a good father although i kinda wonder how much its been down to him and how much down to the nanny as to how the children have turned out. At least if all the reports of the amount of pills is true that he was supposedly on.
Well, I guess I give Michael more credit than that, but the bottomline is since neither of us were there our opinions are conjecture.

My opinion is largerly based on the reports by those who saw him interact with his children.

[Tam5115]

This is interesting. There definitely IS a resemblance here between Prince and Joe Jackson's father.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/princegreatgrandfather98.jpg


Blanket and little Michael!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/akz8cw.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/jkyjtuo.jpg



The last one has Michael as a child placed over the right side of this picture of Blanket.

Yep, he's Michael's child IMO

[Ann]

Excluding sperm donations, when it comes to a patient doctor relationship, there should be boundaries. You can't mix friendship and business, or in this case doctor/patient/friendship. It just doesn't work. Sooner or later someone gets hurt. JMHO

I disagree. I also think it is very common for doctors, lawyers and such to socialize with patients and clients.

[Ann]

This is interesting. There definitely IS a resemblance here between Prince and Joe Jackson's father.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/princegreatgrandfather98.jpg


Blanket and little Michael!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/akz8cw.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/jkyjtuo.jpg



The last one has Michael as a child placed over the right side of this picture of Blanket.

Yep, he's Michael's child IMO
I would say in the bottom picture of Blanket he definitely looks like Michael.

[Roamer]

How can anyone believe he is Michael's son, just because Joe says so?

Michael got close to a lot of children. I just think this boy was one who didn't forget.

[Ann]

How can anyone believe he is Michael's son, just because Joe says so?

Michael got close to a lot of children. I just think this boy was one who didn't forget.

I think you're mixing up Blanket with Omar Bhatti.

[Trailblazer]

3:00 -- The judge just admitted Jackson's 2002 will into probate. The will names John Branca and John McClain as co-executors. We know Katherine has a beef with that. The question -- will she challenge the co-executors or possibly ask that she be named as a third executor. Court is in recess for an hour-and-a half. Stay tuned.

2:50 -- The judge has ruled that AEG has to provide a copy of their contract with Michael to Katherine Jackson.

2:32 -- The judge has taken the bench.

2:28 -- Family members have begun to file back into the courtroom. The judge has yet to come back.

[Trailblazer]

Jackson Case -- Catch Them Leaving
Posted Aug 3rd 2009 2:07PM by TMZ Staff

The hearing on Michael Jackson's estate is taking a recess until 1:30pm -- we'll see if anyone says anything on their way out.

[Naia]

This is interesting. There definitely IS a resemblance here between Prince and Joe Jackson's father.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/princegreatgrandfather98.jpg


Blanket and little Michael!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/akz8cw.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/jkyjtuo.jpg



The last one has Michael as a child placed over the right side of this picture of Blanket.

Yep, he's Michael's child IMO

Wow, that's amazing.

[Roamer]

Sorry. I was responding to someone's post upthread. I do not think he is Michael's son. Joe is going on TV saying he is.

[Sioux_Girl]

Sorry. I was responding to someone's post upthread. I do not think he is Michael's son. Joe is going on TV saying he is.

Im confused lol - you dont think who is Michaels son?

[texanne]

In the HLN broadcast, it was mentioned that Klein and his lawyers state that Klein is NOT the biological father. That should settle it for all but those who for some reason need him to be. Why would he lie? I am glad the custody hearing is over, so some of the media madness will quiet down.

[Ann]

TMZ to be Sued by Two Jackson Players
Monday, August 03, 2009
Music / By Roger Friedman
Tags: Michael Jackson


Two players in the Michael Jackson saga are getting ready to sue website TMZ. The accusation: that Harvey Levin’s information gatherers obtained a “scoop” from stolen materials found in the files of the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Department...

http://www.showbiz411.com/tmz-sued-santa-barbara-sheriffs-howard-king-marc-schaffel-debbie-rowe-harvey-levin
************

That brings up a question I've had all along about the video and evidence items that were from the 2003 raid on Neverland that were published/broadcasted in the media. All of that was marked as "confidential". So what was the media doing with it and how was it gotten?

[Ann]

In the HLN broadcast, it was mentioned that Klein and his lawyers state that Klein is NOT the biological father. That should settle it for all but those who for some reason need him to be. Why would he lie? I am glad the custody hearing is over, so some of the media madness will quiet down.

Did they said why Klein's lawyers were there? On what basis was he lodging an objection to custody and Joe Jackson?

[texanne]

Everything the lawyers said was not repeated, and I did not watch it live. It seems he lodged his motion on the basis that he was close to MJ (or something like that)....HUH? I truly feel that the death of MJ has brought out every nut and hanger on that ever drove down the street he lived on.

[Emyo]

The guardianship papers are already out. No mention of Joe :cool:. And Katherine and Debbie have to share the cost of the psychologist. And no mention of Rebbie either.

http://www.accesshollywood.com/content/pdfs/Jackson-20090803.pdf

[Ann]

Per CNN.

Today Klein's lawyer told the court that Klein wants a role in the children's education and medical care.

The judge asked what his standing was. There was a sidebar. The judge then said Klein has no standing to pursue that in THIS court.

Analysts are saying Klein may be able to pursue it in family court if Klein is claiming paternity. If Klein pursues it in family court, a DNA test could be ordered.

[Trailblazer]

4:54 -- During the lunch break John Branca said Jackson's estate has reached a settlement with AEG -- re: merchandising and rehearsal footage.

4:49 -- Katherine Jackson just withdrew her petition asking that she be put in charge of the estate. This petition was filed before she knew a will existed. The issue now -- will she oppose the appointment of Branca and McClain.

4:40 -- The Jacksons have all filed back into court and the judge has taken the bench

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/03/michael-jackson-estate-hearing-guardianship-debbie-rowe/

[Ann]

Just for clarification, I'm hearing now that what was said in court through his lawyer that Klein was saying he was not the "presumed father".

Presumed Father has a specific legal definition:

Presumed Father: The individual that the law presumes, until shown otherwise, to be the legal father of a child. This may not be the actual biological father of the child. The law in most states creates a "rebuttable presumption" that if a woman conceives or gives birth to a child while she is married, her husband will be "presumed" to be the father of the child. A similar "presumption" can also be created if a father voluntarily allows his name to be placed on a child's birth certificate. These legal presumptions will remain effective until they are successfully "rebutted," or challenged by someone in a formal legal proceeding.

http://glossary.adoption.com/presumed-father.html

Legally Michael is the presumed father.

So Klein saying he is not the presumed father does not mean he is saying he's not the biological father.

[texanne]

Until it is proven differently, Klein is IMO just another hanger on trying to cling to his 15 minutes. If he is the bio dad, then today would have been the ideal time to make that claim. This circus certainly has its share of sideshows.

[Sioux_Girl]

Until it is proven differently, Klein is IMO just another hanger on trying to cling to his 15 minutes. If he is the bio dad, then today would have been the ideal time to make that claim. This circus certainly has its share of sideshows.

I just feel so sorry for those children

They have what appears to be quite a secluded life with just there dad. Now there dad is dead and they have been put with a load of relations they probably hardly knew. In addition they find out they have a mother and now possibly someone claiming to be the father. In addition to that i suppose they will find out Blanket is only a half brother and has a different mother...its enough to send them crazy all in one go :(

[LiveLaughLuv]

Until it is proven differently, Klein is IMO just another hanger on trying to cling to his 15 minutes. If he is the bio dad, then today would have been the ideal time to make that claim. This circus certainly has its share of sideshows.

He's only the sperm donor..Why in the world would any court grant him any form of custody? He donated his sperm....

I feel MJ was smart enough to get something in writting that Klein will not try to get visits or custody!

[Ann]

EXCLUSIVE: Lawyer Reveals Why Dr Arnold Klein Wants Say In Custody DecisionEXCLUSIVE: Lawyer Reveals Why Dr Arnold Klein Wants Say In Custody Decision
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted on Aug 03, 2009 @ 10:16PM

The appearance of an attorney representing Dr. Arnold Klein at the guardianship hearing for Michael Jackson's three kids was a surprise even to the court, which ruled the dermatologist had no legal standing to interject himself into the decision.

In a statement to RadarOnline.com, the attorney, Mark Vincent Kaplan, explained why Klein feels compelled to be involved.

"At 9:15 AM today, August 3, 2009, we appeared on behalf of Dr. Arnold Klein before Judge Mitchell Beckloff in Los Angeles County Superior Court, Probate Department 5, to ask the Court to allow Dr. Klein to have an opportunity to present evidence to the Court for its consideration in fashioning an appropriate guardianship order with specific protection and supervision in areas relating to Paris Katherine and Prince Michael's upbringing that were of particular concern to Michael. Dr. Klein is not objecting to Katherine Jackson being the guardian nominee, but was acting on promises he made to Michael with respect to assuring the long term health and stability of the children and their ability to enjoy as normal of a life out of the spotlight as could be reasonably possible.

"Dr. Klein has always had a special relationship with Paris Katherine and Prince Michael, loves and cares deeply for these children and is looking out for their best interest. Dr. Klein has been involved with the children in sharing holidays and other special events and wishes to have the ability to continue his involvement as a very close friend of their father and offers his guidance and protection forever."

Grandmother Katherine Jackson was granted permanent guardianship of all three children.

Klein's statement only deals with the older two - Prince Michael and Paris - which is particularly interesting given the many rumors that have him as their biological father.

Kaplan said he is preparing legal papers which he'll present to the court on September 1.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/08/exclusive-why-dr-arnold-klein-wants-his-say-jackson-custody-decision

***************

As the article notes Kein is only interested in the 2 older children of whom people suspect he is the bio dad.

My guess is that he is the bio dad but is bound by some legal agreement with Michael not to reveal that he is, and Klein is looking for a legal way to get around the agreement. It may be that his lawyer, who probably already knew Klein had no standing in probate court, was firing the first shot over the bow and announcing Klein's intent to keep on being part of the 2 children's lives. I don't think the either Kaplan or Klein are fools. Kaplan is a very high power lawyer who is an expert in family law.

I suspect that Klein, at least at this point, is not interested in wrestling custody away from Katherine. The issue now may be as stated which is to participate in their education and welfare, but it may be that he's anticipating an issue that could be down the road which is guardianship in case something happens to Katherine.

Since Michael chose Diana Ross to succeed Katherine as guardian instead of a family member, that does seem to imply that Michael preferred a non-family member over his own family. I haven't heard that Ross is close to the children and it appears that Michael's nomination of her came as a surprise.

If something did happen to Katherine, I think a number of people would want to take over. It may be that Rebbie is being installed as the primary caregiver for that reason. The court would more than likely give guardianship to someone who has a established relationship with the children than it would a bio dad whose contact was severed by Katherine when she got custody. That may be another reason why Klein wants continued involvement.

JMO

[Alibar]

IMO, Dr Klein behaved like a foolish person by the unexpected visit to the court yesterday. If he had any sort of arrangement with Michael over caring for the children, it would have been in the will where Michael covered the necessities. I think Klein must be like the other hangers on who want to continue their time in the sun of publicity. I do hope and pray we never know who the sperm donors are for any of the children and I'll never understand why such knowledge seems so important other than prying prying into extremely personal matters.

[Ann]

Jacko Doctor Klein Bans Debbie Rowe From Office
Tuesday, August 04, 2009
Music / By Roger Friedman
Tags: Michael Jackson


Dr. Arnold Klein, Michael Jackson’s longtime dermatologist, currently under investigation, has banned his former nurse from his office.

Klein, sources say, has decreed that Debbie Rowe is not allowed in his office when he’s present. Last week, Rowe accompanied a friend to see one of Klein’s partners for an office visit. “Klein went nuts,” a source says.

Klein should be worried about Rowe. “She knows where all the bodies are buried,” an insider tells me. It’s possible that investigators, in fact, have already talked to Rowe about Klein’s involvement with Jackson.

It’s ironic too because for the last couple of weeks, various gossip sites and magazines (US Weekly) declared Klein the biological father of Rowe’s children with Jackson. Nothing could be farther from the truth. A friend of Rowe’s laughed, telling me: “When Debbie heard that, she said it made her skin crawl.”

Meantime all the doctors in the Michael Jackson saga should start worrying: a hidden deadline is drawing near.

I’m told that LAPD Police Commissioner William Bratton returns from vacation tomorrow, August 5th, to hear a complete update about the various investigations.

Bratton, sources say, didn’t want anything to happen while he was away. But once he’s back in town, look for Bratton to push the start button on what ever arrests are to be made. This could be as early as tomorrow but more likely at the end of the week.

The doctors involved could be Dr. Conrad Murray, who stayed overnight with Jackson in his rented Holmby Hills estate and may have given him anesthesia to let him sleep; as well as the aforementioned Dr. Klein. As I reported here a few weeks ago, Jackson was visiting Klein’s office three times a week minimum just to be put to sleep for a few hours every afternoon. That’s why rehearsals were starting so late.

http://www.showbiz411.com/michael-jackson-arnold-klein-debbie-rowe-william-bratton

**************

This is one time I disagree with Friedman. I can see why Klein would ban Debbie Rowe from his office with the pack of paparazzi that follow her around I'm sure it's not good for his practice.

As I reported here a few weeks ago, Jackson was visiting Klein’s office three times a week minimum just to be put to sleep for a few hours every afternoon. That’s why rehearsals were starting so late.

That doesn't make any sense that Michael was going to Klein's office to sleep if Murray was putting Michael under every night with Diprivan.

[annalyzer]

Has MJ been buried yet?

[texanne]

It is my understanding that MJ is in a mausoleum belonging to someone close to the family.

I am finding it quite humorous that in spite of the fact that Klein denied being the father of MJ's children, and in spite of the fact that MJ's mother was given permanent custody, we are having posts quoting sources that seem to be under the delusion that Klein is claiming to be the father, and that Rowe was given custody. He only claimed to be a long time, close acquaintance of MJ. I guess the hearing was a disappointment to the authors of the mentioned articles. I think it will get to the point that the grandmother will have to file papers to stop all the hangers on from desperately clinging to their 15 minutes. I don't think I have ever seen such a disgusting circus in my life. It would be nice if people would back off and let them have a little peace in their lives. MJ's mother seems to be in good health, and can afford help in caring for the children. There are lawyers, etc watching over the trust fund. Rowe will be allowed to visit with the two older children. It all sounds like a good settlement.

[SavannahStar]

It is my understanding that MJ is in a mausoleum belonging to someone close to the family.

I am finding it quite humorous that in spite of the fact that Klein denied being the father of MJ's children, and in spite of the fact that MJ's mother was given permanent custody, we are having posts quoting sources that seem to be under the delusion that Klein is claiming to be the father, and that Rowe was given custody. He only claimed to be a long time, close acquaintance of MJ. I guess the hearing was a disappointment to the authors of the mentioned articles. I think it will get to the point that the grandmother will have to file papers to stop all the hangers on from desperately clinging to their 15 minutes. I don't think I have ever seen such a disgusting circus in my life. It would be nice if people would back off and let them have a little peace in their lives. MJ's mother seems to be in good health, and can afford help in caring for the children. There are lawyers, etc watching over the trust fund. Rowe will be allowed to visit with the two older children. It all sounds like a good settlement.

I couldn't agree more. :hifive:

[Ann]

The only thing I can say is I don't believe this is the end of Klein going to court about the 2 kids. Klein has been very unclear about whether or not he is or may be the bio dad.

It does seem to me there would have been no need for any confidentiality agreement concerning the birth of the children if there was nothing to it.

The only thing I've done is try to figure out what possible reason Klein would think he has any say about anything. The only thing I can come up with is that he either knows he is or believes he could be the bio dad of the 2 kids.

Whether people like it or not it has become an issue.

[Sioux_Girl]

The only thing I can say is I don't believe this is the end of Klein going to court about the 2 kids. Klein has been very unclear about whether or not he is or may be the bio dad.

It does seem to me there would have been no need for any confidentiality agreement concerning the birth of the children if there was nothing to it.

The only thing I've done is try to figure out what possible reason Klein would think he has any say about anything. The only thing I can come up with is that he either knows he is or believes he could be the bio dad of the 2 kids.

Whether people like it or not it has become an issue.

Even more so when its only the oldest two he seems to be interested in.

I dont understand though...he was a sperm donor ( if he was even) that shouldnt give him any rights over Prince and Paris.

[Alibar]

IMO, I think it is only an issue to those who think the lowest tabloid article requires a response.

[Ann]

Even more so when its only the oldest two he seems to be interested in.

I dont understand though...he was a sperm donor ( if he was even) that shouldnt give him any rights over Prince and Paris.

No, it shouldn't, but now I'm hearing some lawyers say that may not necessarily be the case as a result of some recent court decisions. I think that's why it may become an issue.

[Ann]

This is what was said last night on CNN:

HILL: Lisa, what if he does turn out? What if it happens -- he says and it turns out that he is the biological father. Would he -- at that point have any rights and be invited to perhaps more than Thanksgiving as Jeff mentioned?

LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Remember that Michael Jackson married Debbie Rowe when she was six months pregnant with their first child. And I thought that he did that so that he could take advantage of California's conclusive presumption that a child born to a married husband and wife who are cohabiting is the child of the marriage, period, conclusively.

Except -- and of course, there are always an exception under the law even when we use words like conclusively -- except if a punitive father comes in within two years and requests a blood test.

Now, those two years have passed for a long, long time. There are some other cases in California though, where the father can come in and request a blood test under unusual circumstances even after those two years.

So nothing as far as I'm concerned [nothing] is off the table in this case. Anything could happen just as we saw today in court.

TOOBIN: But the weird thing is at one level, you could see, ok, I want to have a DNA test I want to prove -- Arnie Klein saying -- I'm the father. He didn't do that.

BLOOM: I know but he's being so cagey.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/03/acd.02.html

[Ann]

I learned in the Anna Nicole case that when lawyers start throwing out terms like "presumptive father" and "putative father" (I think "punitive" was wrong in the CNN transcript) it means something very specific legally.

Putative Father:

Definition: A man who may be a child's father, but who was not married to the child's mother before the child was born and has not established that he is the father in a court proceeding.

http://adoption.about.com/cs/adoptionrights/g/defput_fath.htm

From what I've been reading a putative father can come into play when the mother tries to put the child up for adoption and the putative father may have claims to custody.

So what angle Kaplan may come up with is since Michael's children are orphaned by their legal father, as putative father, Klein would have say over custody especially if the bio mom is giving up custody to someone else.

[Sioux_Girl]

I learned in the Anna Nicole case that when lawyers start throwing out terms like "presumptive father" and "putative father" (I think "punitive" was wrong in the CNN transcript) it means something very specific legally.

Putative Father:

Definition: A man who may be a child's father, but who was not married to the child's mother before the child was born and has not established that he is the father in a court proceeding.

From what I've been reading a putative father can come into play when the mother tries to put the child up for adoption and the putative father may have claims to custody.

So what angle Kaplan may come up with is since Michael's children are orphaned by their legal father, as putative father, Klein would have say over custody especially if the bio mom is giving up custody to someone else.

To be honest i think its just sad. He gave his sperm ( if he did ) soo Michael could have a family. You dont give sperm samples just to try and get involved in the kids life when you feel like it. The father died..the childrens family are the ones who should be the ones who make decisions regarding them..not someone who is purely a sperm donor. I really do think his actions are disgusting. My ex husband had a low sperm count and if we had a child together we would have had to use sperm donation - it sickens me to think had something happened to me and him....that if we lived in America that someone could just come and get involved in my childs life like that.

[Ann]

To be honest i think its just sad. He gave his sperm ( if he did ) soo Michael could have a family. You dont give sperm samples just to try and get involved in the kids life when you feel like it. The father died..the childrens family are the ones who should be the ones who make decisions regarding them..not someone who is purely a sperm donor. I really do think his actions are disgusting. My ex husband had a low sperm count and if we had a child together we would have had to use sperm donation - it sickens me to think had something happened to me and him....that if we lived in America that someone could just come and get involved in my childs life like that.

Yes, but Klein wasn't purely a sperm donor (if he is). He has had an on going relationship with the kids and does know them--maybe even more than the Jackson family has up until now. There are photos with the kids spending Christmas with him and other photos with the kids. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen any photos of the kids with the Jacksons prior to Michael's death.

[Sioux_Girl]

Yes, but Klein wasn't purely a sperm donor (if he is). He has had an on going relationship with the kids and does know them--maybe even more than the Jackson family has up until now. There are photos with the kids spending Christmas with him and other photos with the kids. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen any photos of the kids with the Jacksons prior to Michael's death.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. It is alleged he is a sperm donor. Many people are sperm donors..they dont then try and take over the childs welfare even IF they know the children that are born from the sperm or for that matter by egg donation.

[Ann]

Here's picture of Klein with the kids.

http://www.buzzhollywood.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/4057b_a-michael-jackson-christmas_249x321.jpg

[Ann]

I guess we have to agree to disagree. It is alleged he is a sperm donor. Many people are sperm donors..they dont then try and take over the childs welfare even IF they know the children that are born from the sperm or for that matter by egg donation.It does seem that if Klein is the sperm donor, Michael didn't mind him knowing the children.

[Sioux_Girl]

It does seem that if Klein is the sperm donor, Michael didn't mind him knowing the children.

Like i said the other day IMO two many boundaries were crossed between Klein and Michael. Yes ive seen pictures of Klein with the children i dont dispute he knows them - however you dont generally become a sperm donor so you become part of there decision maker...and IF Micheal wanted this guy to be involved in his childrens life in that capacity im sure he could have put that in his will..instead of putting his m other and Diana Ross.

[Ann]

Like i said the other day IMO two many boundaries were crossed between Klein and Michael. Yes ive seen pictures of Klein with the children i dont dispute he knows them - however you dont generally become a sperm donor so you become part of there decision maker...and IF Micheal wanted this guy to be involved in his childrens life in that capacity im sure he could have put that in his will..instead of putting his m other and Diana Ross.

What about Melissa Etheridge? Her friend, David Crosby, was sperm donor for two of her children---different strokes for different folks. :happy0207:

http://i.rollingstone.com/assets/rs/11/3861/images/70242_lg.jpg

[texanne]

First of all, it has never been proven that there was any sperm donor other than MJ himself. Klein and his lawyers said in court that he was not the father, just someone who wants to keep hanging on...oops..er....staying close to the children. MJ is deceased, and some people are now simply outsiders and need to let the family have some peace. The man made it clear who was to take care of his children if something happened to him, and the court respected his wishes.

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/04/michael-jackson-sells/

Michael Jackson Sells

The new documents in the Michael Jackson estate case show the special administrators of the estate expect to haul in money in the "high eight figures" for merchandising and other Jackson-related stuff.

The docs mention the $5.5 million the special administrators already collected from Dr. Tohme Tohme. In addition, the administrators have collected "millions of dollars of tangible personal property throughout the country, including memorabilia and art."

The docs say the special administrators are deep in negotiations to market all things Jackson.

The docs claim the special administrators have resolved three lawsuits.

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/04/michael-jackson-columbia-pictures-aeg-estate-rehearsal%20footage/

Michael Jackson Movie Coming Soon

New court documents in the Michael Jackson estate case reveal Columbia Pictures scored the footage of Michael Jackson's rehearsals and preparations for his London concerts ... but the studio is paying a hefty price.

Columbia will create a movie from the footage. Under the terms of the deal, the Jackson estate will get 90% of the profits and and AEG will get the remaining 10%.

Columbia will guarantee a minimum of $60 million in return for the rights.

[Ann]

Probate court filings

http://images.eonline.com/static/news/pdf/joejacksondeclaration.pdf

One interesting thing that I haven't seen before is that Katherine is also seeking to be guardian of the children's estate. There will be a hearing on that on Oct. 2.

[Ann]

Last night on LKL Michael's manager was saying that Michael did make Katherine a trustee in some of his business affairs which is something that McMillan alluded to the night before.

DILEO: Right. It's not as big as people make it out to be. But the one thing you have to remember, Michael liked to have his business separate from his family. He didn't like his family interfering in his business.

KING: Really? Any of the family?

DILEO: Any of the family. Now, he did put Katherine as a trustee on certain things, because he trusted her. He didn't want them knowing what he was doing.

KING: Wasn't he close with his brothers and sisters?

DILEO: They are close as brothers and sisters. That has nothing to do with business. You could be close with your brother. You don't want him to looking at your contract.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/04/lkl.01.html
************
Jackson relied on his 79-year-old mother for more than emotional support: Documents show he put her in the position of trustee on contracts, including his lucrative Sony-ATV catalog, and associates say he also sought her input on other financial matters as he became more wary of those in his business circle.

"Any deal Michael did, he always called his mother up," said Steve Manning, a close friend of the Jackson family. "She was the backbone of his spirit."

"What he trusted was that she would make sure that his wishes were carried out," said Mrs. Jackson's attorney, L. Londell McMillan, who is representing her interests as the singer's estate is sorted out. "He understood that she was the most loyal person in his life. Her loyalty did not stop for Michael with merely personal matters."

But Jackson's last known will, drafted in 2002, left his mother, along with his three children, out of any decision-making role in his estate, leaving her only as a beneficiary.

Attorney John Branca and Jackson's former manager and close friend, John McClain, were named (along with a third party who has since removed himself) as the only people with the authority to guide his business matters after his death.

Mrs. Jackson is trying to change that, seeking to gain some kind of control over her late son's estate. The Jackson matriarch is adamant that she — or even another family member — have a role over Michael Jackson's business legacy, which may be worth more in death than when he was alive. Some estimates have valued his estate at $500 million'...

However, a source who asked for anonymity because of the ongoing nature of the situation said those trustee positions did not have decision-making authority.

Whether Mrs. Jackson has the business capacity to deal with Jackson's estate, which is complicated and tangled, is likely to be a key question. She and Joe filed for bankruptcy 10 years ago, listing nearly $24 million in debts that included court judgments, auto loans and credit cards. Court records show the only valuable asset listed was a house in Las Vegas then valued at $290,000.

McMillan said the role of a trustee does not require a person to be a business whiz.

"A trustee is one of trust as opposed to extraordinary skill," he said. "Trustees hire experts to administer business that requires experts."

Manning said Mrs. Jackson is confident that her legal team would do an excellent job with her guidance. He also raised the possibility that one of Jackson's five brothers could have a role in the estate: "That would be the right thing to do, the right thing to happen."


Legally, Mrs. Jackson may not be able to have an official role. Both Branca and Hansell said the addition of Katherine as an executor of the will or a trustee of the trust might raise tax questions because she is a beneficiary.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iDsJXYwy58GTHod9LEZX7_kfCGKgD99SN63O0

***************
So on one hand McMillan is making a case for Katherine to be made co-trustee because of the trust Michael put in her, but then immediately says her legal team would be the ones guiding her and then even opens up the possibility that one of the brothers might replace her.

I assume that the executors are also the trustees of the trust. The will states that an executor has the option of appointing someone else to replace him or her if he/she resigns the role or to succeed that person. I assume the trustees have the same options.

I think there is a real possibilty that Katherine is being used by others to get access to the estate. IMO that is not what Michael wanted.

It may be that the executors can come up with something that would include her but prevent other parties from getting certain inroads into the estate.

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/05/michael-jackson-katherine-jackson-joe-jackson-jermaine-jackson-estate-lien-segye-times/

Michael Jackson -- Lien on Me

Open the floodgates -- the creditors are getting in line for a piece of the action in the Michael Jackson estate case.

Segye Times -- a South Korean newspaper -- won a judgment against Katherine, Joe and Jermaine Jackson, along with the Jackson Record Company, back in 1994. The suit claimed the newspaper paid the family $5.5 million for a series of Jackson family concerts in 1989 that never took place.

A judgment was entered for $4 million. Segye Times now wants $7,865,730.78 -- interest is a bitch!

It's interesting that Michael was not sued personally. Nonetheless, under the category "better late than never," Segye wants the estate to pay up.

Stay tuned...

[Ann]

Finally!!

Exclusive Jackson news: More than a month after his death, plans are underway for Michael Jackson's final resting place.

ET has learned from a source that Michael Jackson's family has signed papers that clear the way for the late singer to be buried at Forest Lawn cemetery in the Hollywood Hills.

Keep checking here for all of the latest Jackson news.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/77227/index.html

Katherine just got granted her allowance. Maybe the family had no money to bury Michael until now. :z0tdntknw:

[Ann]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/05/michael-jackson-katherine-jackson-joe-jackson-jermaine-jackson-estate-lien-segye-times/

Michael Jackson -- Lien on Me

Open the floodgates -- the creditors are getting in line for a piece of the action in the Michael Jackson estate case.

Segye Times -- a South Korean newspaper -- won a judgment against Katherine, Joe and Jermaine Jackson, along with the Jackson Record Company, back in 1994. The suit claimed the newspaper paid the family $5.5 million for a series of Jackson family concerts in 1989 that never took place.

A judgment was entered for $4 million. Segye Times now wants $7,865,730.78 -- interest is a bitch!

It's interesting that Michael was not sued personally. Nonetheless, under the category "better late than never," Segye wants the estate to pay up.

Stay tuned...
That doesn't make sense. They can't make a claim on Michael's estate if the judgment wasn't against him. They could possibly make Katherine pay up from her income share of the trust though.

[Trailblazer]

Finally!!

Exclusive Jackson news: More than a month after his death, plans are underway for Michael Jackson's final resting place.

ET has learned from a source that Michael Jackson's family has signed papers that clear the way for the late singer to be buried at Forest Lawn cemetery in the Hollywood Hills.

Keep checking here for all of the latest Jackson news.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/77227/index.html

Katherine just got granted her allowance. Maybe the family had no money to bury Michael until now. :z0tdntknw:


It's about time....

[Ann]

Gee willikers and oh-oh.

Michael Jackson Sued; Jackson Family Home May Wind Up In Hands Of Creditors In Fraud Suit
Business Wire, May 9, 1996
1 2 Next »
SANTA BARBARA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 9, 1996--The Los Angeles County mansion where pop star Michael Jackson grew up and his parents still reside may wind up in the hands of a Korean newspaper after the Jackson family lost a $4 million lawsuit for fraud and theft, according to attorneys for the newspaper.

Attorneys for the Segye Times of Seoul, Korea, late yesterday filed a lawsuit in Santa Barbara County Superior Court against Michael Jackson to take ownership of the home of Joseph and Katherine Jackson. The ownership is legally listed in Michael Jackson's name.

The lawsuit alleges that "Katherine, Joseph and Michael conspired to hinder, delay and defraud the Jackson parents' creditors."

The suit claims that the legal title to the family's mansion at 4641 Hayvenhurst Ave., Encino, was transferred into Michael Jackson's name, while the parents continued to reside there, so that creditors, such as the newspaper, could not collect their debts.

The lawsuit contends the Jackson family mansion actually belongs to Michael Jackson's parents and that the family is playing a "legal shell game" to keep the home from being taken from creditors, according to Edwin Bradley, an attorney for the Segye Times.

In February 1994, the newspaper's attorneys obtained a trial judgment finding that defendants Mr. and Mrs. Jackson, Jermaine Jackson and promoter Kenneth Choi, had wrongly taken concert money advanced by the Segye Times, a major Korean daily newspaper.

The judgment against the defendants was for $2 million in actual damages and $2 million in punitive damages.

The basis of the lawsuit was that the newspaper paid a $5.5 million advance for a concert by Michael Jackson and the Jackson family. The money was placed into what the newspaper believed was an escrow account. However, according to the lawsuit, the defendants took $2 million of the advance to purchase gifts and make cash payments to themselves and extended family and staff; the concert never took place.

The ownership of the Jackson family mansion has exchanged hands within the Jackson family numerous times over the past decade, according to the lawsuit, all in an attempt to keep creditors from collecting debts.

The suit alleges that Mr. and Mrs. Jackson "embarked upon a scheme and course of conduct to divest themselves of legal title of the Hayvenhurst property, while retaining the equitable and beneficial ownership" of the mansion.

In 1983, Mr. and Mrs. Jackson purportedly conveyed to their son Michael a 50 percent interest in the property, retaining the other 50 percent ownership in their name. Then, later that same year, Mr. Jackson purportedly conveyed his remaining 25 percent interest to his son.

In 1987, Mrs. Jackson purportedly deeded her remaining 25 percent interest to daughter LaToya Jackson. In 1990, Mrs. Jackson sued her daughter to return her 25 percent interest because that interest "was in jeopardy as community property and subject to loss in the event of any adverse litigation involving other family members."

In 1993, a deed was recorded in which Mrs. Jackson "who previously conveyed to (and withdraws from) LaToya Jackson, as nominee only, an undivided 25 percent interest" and then purportedly conveyed that interest to her son Michael as "nominee only."

The lawsuit seeking ownership of the Jackson family mansion for the Segye Times newspaper alleges that "in making the transfers... Katherine, Joseph and Michael agreed and knowingly and willfully conspired between themselves to hinder, delay and defraud Katherine and Joseph's creditors, including Segye, in the collection of their claims against Katherine and Joseph."

The lawsuit was filed in Santa Barbara County because that is where Michael jackson now resides. For a copy of the lawsuit or more information, call Kerosky & Bradley at 415-777-4445

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_1996_May_9/ai_18267218/

[Ann]

So it looks like Michael was trying to help his parents hide assets from their creditors.

Katherine had to sue LaToya to get back the 25% that she conveyed to her then Katherine conveyed it to Michael.

This may put a crimp into any notion Katherine has in becoming co-trustee. I think it will be unfair to the children if any of this claim comes out of their share of the estate.

[Alibar]

Interesting article.... I think allowing a small glimpse into some of the family's ways of taking care of business.

[Ann]

As I predicted that there was going to be trouble with the executors about the family taking things from Michael's home...

New Michael Jackson songs on missing hard drives

Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:07am EDT (Reuters) - Another thriller is developing in the complex afterlife of Michael Jackson.

His sister LaToya has taken possession of computer hard drives that contain a trove of unreleased songs he recorded with A-list singers such as Ne-Yo, Akon, and will.i.am of the Black Eyed Peas, according to Rolling Stone magazine.

The drives were in the "Thriller" singer's rented Holmby Hills, Calif., mansion when he died suddenly in June. Hours afterward, the family descended on the house to claim all its contents, and LaToya grabbed the drives, Rolling Stone said, quoting the late singer's manager, Frank DiLeo.

"They backed up trucks, removing everything," DiLeo was quoted as telling the magazine in its issue that hits newsstands on Friday. "They thought Michael owned it all, so they took even the rented furniture. That's who's going to run his estate?"

Jackson's will gave 40 percent of his estate to his 79-year-old mother, Katherine, who wants more control and has raised doubts about the pair of high-powered executors currently overseeing his business affairs.

In a follow-up interview with Reuters, DiLeo said he was "pretty sure" the hard drives were at the family's Hayvenhurst compound in Encino, Calif.

"The estate lawyers will send out letters" to recover the drives so that the contents can be logged, DiLeo added.

An email sent to a representative for LaToya Jackson was not answered, and a family spokesman was not immediately available.

A spokeswoman for will.i.am said the singer did not have duplicates of his work with Jackson. Representatives for Akon and Ne-Yo either could not be reached or had no information.

DiLeo told Rolling Stone that there were at least 100 songs -- including many recorded at Jackson's 1980s peak -- that were never released, including a few "sensational" tracks that were left off "Bad," the 1987 follow-up to his blockbuster "Thriller."

(Reporting by Dean Goodman; Editing by Bob Tourtellotte)

http://www.reuters.com/article/enter...56D6M220090806

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/06/dr-arnold-klein-michael-jackson-mark-vincent-kaplan-cutsody-children/

Dr. Arnold Klein Won't Give Up

The judge unceremoniously pulled the plug on Dr. Arnold Klein's attempt to insert himself in the Michael Jackson custody case on Monday ... but last night his lawyer told us the doctor will go back for a second round.

Klein's lawyer, Mark Vincent Kaplan, told us last night outside Boa Steakhouse in West Hollywood he'll file legal papers on Klein's behalf sometime after the beginning of September.

Last Monday, Kaplan went before the judge and expressed Klein's concerns over parenting issues involving Jackson's three kids. There are reports Dr. Klein could be the biological father, but he's never acknowledged it. The judge checkmated Kaplan, noting that Klein had no legal standing to lodge objections to the custody settlement between Katherine Jackson and Debbie Rowe.

But clearly Kaplan has something up his sleeve ...

[texanne]

I fail to see where any of it is Klein's business.

[Sioux_Girl]

I fail to see where any of it is Klein's business.

I have a feeling hes trying to imply hes the eldest pairs "biological father".

[texanne]

I have a feeling hes trying to imply hes the eldest pairs "biological father".

And? He denied that once before. Even if he is, he has no business in their life. Sperm donor does not equal father. If MJ had wanted him involved, he would have left that in his will. The man needs to buzz off...IMO.

[Sioux_Girl]

And? He denied that once before. Even if he is, he has no business in their life. Sperm donor does not equal father. If MJ had wanted him involved, he would have left that in his will. The man needs to buzz off...IMO.

Im curious where did he deny it? If you mean in court..the way Anne put it at least he said he wasnt the presumed father ie cos Michael was that.

And i agree that if he was the donor..that shouldnt give him any rights.

[Ann]

Im curious where did he deny it? If you mean in court..the way Anne put it at least he said he wasnt the presumed father ie cos Michael was that.

And i agree that if he was the donor..that shouldnt give him any rights.

I still stand by what I said in posts #148 and #149 about "presumptive" father and "putative" father.

If I'm right, I'll again be my obnoxious self and say, "I told you so". :grin:

If I'm wrong, you can all say, "See, you didn't know what you were talking about". :girl_haha:

[Sioux_Girl]

I still stand by what I said in posts #148 and #149 about "presumptive" father and "putative" father.

If I'm right, I'll again be my obnoxious self and say, "I told you so". :grin:

If I'm wrong, you can all say, "See, you didn't know what you were talking about". :girl_haha:

Ha i dont know anything about American laws :tender:

[Ann]

Michael Jackson was scheduled for a second physical
Lloyd's, the British carrier underwriting the majority of the risk for the pop star's planned comeback concerts, insisted on follow-up tests by a London physician.
By Harriet Ryan
August 7, 2009
Michael Jackson was scheduled to undergo a second physical by an insurance company doctor at the time of his death, according to the terms of the policy purchased by the promoter of his planned comeback concerts in London.

A New York doctor gave Jackson a battery of medical tests in February so promoter AEG Live could get insurance for a portion of the performances, but the British carrier underwriting the majority of the risk, Lloyd's, insisted on a follow-up physical by a London physician closer to the July 13 kickoff show.


Under the terms in place when Jackson died, the $17.5-million policy covered only "losses" -- cancellations or non-appearances by the pop icon "resulting from accident." That coverage could have been expanded to include shows scuttled by a death from natural causes or by illness, but only after insurance officials had reviewed the results of the second medical examination and watched a run-through of the show at the O2 Arena.

Jackson, 50, died June 25, the week before he was to travel to London.

On Thursday, AEG Live provided a copy of the policy to Jackson's mother, Katherine, in what the company said was an effort to quell misinformation about its terms. The entertainer's father, Joe Jackson, suggested in an interview Sunday with Fox News' Geraldo Rivera that there was something suspicious about the AEG policy.


According to a copy obtained by The Times, the policy specifically prohibited a payout if cancellations were related to illegal drug use.

"This insurance does not cover any loss directly or indirectly arising out of, contributed to, by or resulting from . . . the illegal possession or illicit taking of drugs and their effects," the policy read.

Jackson, who had struggled with prescription drug addiction, was taking medication at the time of his death. Authorities are investigating the role drugs may have played in his death and are mulling charges against his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray. The L.A. County coroner's office has not yet released the results of a toxicology screen. AEG has said that the company is awaiting an official determination of death before trying to collect on the policy.

L.A.-based AEG has said getting insurance coverage for the troubled singer's comeback effort was difficult. The Lloyd's policy covered the income expected to be generated during the first 13 of the 50 planned concerts.

The promoter's chief executive, Randy Phillips, has said the company spent up to $30 million mounting the elaborate show but expects to recoup the investment by collecting on the insurance policy and embarking on various deals with the Jackson estate, including a documentary film.

Much of the policy appears standard, but aspects testify to Jackson's global fame. In an effort to guard his privacy, Jackson was referred to throughout the policy as Mark Jones. The policy also indicates the high stakes in keeping Jackson healthy. With a common cold carrying a potential cost in the millions, the policy barred Jackson from holding "meet-and-greets" with fans.

The policy, finalized in April, also covered Jackson's then-manager, Dr. Tohme Tohme.

"I think they put me on the insurance because we were traveling together and we were going to be together," the businessman said.

harriet.ryan@latimes.com


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-jackson-insurance7-2009aug07,0,5290158.story

[Trailblazer]

I wonder if Michael has any other life insurance on himself besides what AEG had..

[Ann]

I wonder if Michael has any other life insurance on himself besides what AEG had..
I don't know if he did, but if he did, I doubt any would cover a illegal drug overdose if that's what he died of. Of course diprivan is not a controlled substance.

I do believe that AEG had a hard time getting any insurance on him with his rehab history and his history of backing out of commitments.

[Alibar]

I don't know if he did, but if he did, I doubt any would cover a illegal drug overdose if that's what he died of. Of course diprivan is not a controlled substance.

I do believe that AEG had a hard time getting any insurance on him with his rehab history and his history of backing out of commitments.

From all that has been posted before, I think Michael considered the 100 new songs as insurance.

[PatC]

<---snip--->

Much of the policy appears standard, but aspects testify to Jackson's global fame. In an effort to guard his privacy, Jackson was referred to throughout the policy as Mark Jones. The policy also indicates the high stakes in keeping Jackson healthy. With a common cold carrying a potential cost in the millions, the policy barred Jackson from holding "meet-and-greets" with fans.



harriet.ryan@latimes.com


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-jackson-insurance7-2009aug07,0,5290158.story

I understood Jackson to be somewhat of a "germ-o-phobe". I'd think he would avoid "meet-and-greets" with fans like the plague insurance requirements or not.

[Alibar]

NEW YORK, Aug. 7 (UPI) -- A drug allegedly administered to Michael Jackson before his death needs to be classified as a federally controlled substance, some U.S. doctors say.

Propofol, a drug used to sedate patients before surgery, is being abused by an increasing number of people because it is easily available, several doctors told The New York Times in a story reported Friday.

For example, a 2007 survey of the country's 126 anesthesiology resident training programs found 71 percent did not secure propofol in a pharmacy or track how it was dispensed, the Times reported.

The Drug Enforcement Administration for the last two years has been evaluating whether the potential for abuse outweighs the benefits of easy accessibility for doctors, an agency spokesman said.

If not properly monitored, propofol is extremely dangerous because it slows breathing and lowers blood pressure, said Dr. Robert R. Kirby, an emeritus professor of anesthesiology at the University of Florida College of Medicine.

"I think the number of deaths is well above what's been reported," Kirby said of propofol abuse.

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/08/07/Sedation-drug-propofol-easy-to-obtain/UPI-61941249656346/

[Trailblazer]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/08/jackson-honchos-score-3-mil/

Jackson Honchos Score $3 Mil

The special administrators of Michael Jackson's estate scored a big one -- reeling in $3 million from the company that issued a life insurance policy to M.J.

John Branca (above) and John McClain quietly cashed in the policy -- reports it was worth upwards of $20 million are simply not true. It was a $3 million payout. And here's why it was a swift move -- the coroner hasn't even released the autopsy report yet.

Some life insurance companies are hinky about paying out proceeds until the cause of death is known. Remember Heath Ledger's death, when the life insurance company wouldn't promptly fork over the $10 million because Heath allegedly lied about drug use on the application?

Somehow Branca and McClain convinced the insurance company to ante up with lightening speed -- and the estate is $3 million richer for it.

[annalyzer]

I finally received my MJ Ultimate Collection cds!! This house will be rocking in a bit. :)

[Ann]

I understood Jackson to be somewhat of a "germ-o-phobe". I'd think he would avoid "meet-and-greets" with fans like the plague insurance requirements or not.
I don't know about that. He seems to have freely given autographs to fans and pose for pictures with them. I've also seen video of him allowing female fans to hug him and even kiss him on the cheek.

[Trailblazer]

I finally received my MJ Ultimate Collection cds!! This house will be rocking in a bit. :)

WTG anna...enjoy

[annalyzer]

WTG anna...enjoy


I shouldn't have spent that money on that thriller cd. That was stupid. This collection has all of those songs on it plus tons more and cost less than the thriller one. :doh:

[Ann]

Jackson Toxicology Report -- Propofol Plus ...
Posted Aug 7th 2009 8:10PM by TMZ Staff

Multiple law enforcement sources tell us the toxicology report in the Michael Jackson case shows Jackson had a lethal amount of the anesthetic Propofol in his system -- but that wasn't the only drug.

We're told the toxicology findings show there was also alprazolam -- also known as Xanax -- in Jackson's system. Xanax is used to treat anxiety.

But our sources say Propofol was -- as one source put it -- "front and center in terms of why [Jackson] died."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/07/jackson-toxicology-report-propofol-plus/

*********
I don't know if this is true, but it would be interesting if Xanax was the only other drug besides Propofol. Maybe Michael did clean up especially if he knew that he was going to have to have a second physical by the insurance company.

It doesn't sound like the Xanax was that significant.

[Ann]

It just occurred to me that a while back Dr. Drew Pinsky was saying that insomnia is a symptom of opiate withdraw. Maybe if Michael was trying to detox off opiates that was causing his insomnia.

[Alibar]

It just occurred to me that a while back Dr. Drew Pinsky was saying that insomnia is a symptom of opiate withdraw. Maybe if Michael was trying to detox off opiates that was causing his insomnia.

Surely Dr Drew said some insomnia is a symptom of opiate withdrawal... As to Michael's insomnia, I thought he'd had it many years. So now to say it was due to detoxing from opiates? LOL Oh, sure........... Next goal: ferret out the cause of all Michael's insomnia throughout the years...

[Sioux_Girl]

Strange article IMO

Reading the Bible, listening to the Gipsy Kings...the final chaotic hours of Michael Jackson’s tortured lifeBy Sharon Churcher In New York and Caroline Graham In Los Angeles
Last updated at 10:48 PM on 08th August 2009
Comments (0) Add to My Stories Michael Jackson's last hours were spent in extreme distress in which he begged for his father as he lapsed into a drug-fuelled emotional breakdown, according to a graphic new account by his biographer.
The tormented superstar was ‘high as a kite’ on powerful painkillers, reading the Bible, writing dark, nightmarish poetry and hysterically accusing the money men who managed his career of ‘betraying’ him with their plans for a gruelling, 50-date London tour.
Author Ian Halperin, who accurately predicted Jackson’s death eight months ago and whose book on the troubled star, Unmasked: The Final Years Of Michael Jackson, is high in the bestseller charts, has now reinterviewed a number of aides, family friends and investigators.
Michael Jackson begged for his father as he lapsed into a drug-fuelled emotional breakdown in his final hours

And last night he revealed that Jackson spent the 12 hours before he died in an increasingly paranoid and agitated state.
Shortly after midnight on the day of his death, June 25, Jackson finally snapped. Demanding that the tour be called off, he asked an aide to call his father, shouting that Joe Jackson was the only person he still trusted.
When Jackson was informed that he could not be reached, he ordered his £100,000-a-month personal physician, Dr Conrad Murray, to ‘put him out’ with an intravenous drip that included an anaesthetic normally used in hospital operating theatres.
‘Michael was cracking up. He had been injecting himself for over 12 hours, he said for excruciating pain,’ Halperin reveals in an exclusive interview from New York, where he is making a documentary about the singer’s tragic death.
‘He begged to see his father but they lied to him. They told him they couldn’t get hold of him. If Joe Jackson had been allowed to see him that night, I believe Michael would still be alive.’
Two days before his death Michael Jackson was rehearsing in Los Angeles for a series of 50 concerts due to be staged at the O2 in London
The singer, a chronic insomniac, got up at noon on June 24. ‘He had been up until at least 4am, he was so wound up,’ Halperin says. ‘Usually he would lunch at 1pm but that day he barely ate a crumb,’ says the author. ‘He was complaining that his throat and lungs hurt. He also had wrenched his back during rehearsals for the London tour.’
At 12.30pm, the writer says, he began to inject himself with Demerol and lidocaine, as well as a psychiatric drug. At 2.40pm, he emerged from his bedroom, still clad in his pyjamas. ‘He was a bit high,’ says Halperin, ‘but he struck up a conversation in the living room with an aide. He reminisced about his childhood.’ The singer then retreated and got dressed. Three phone calls came into the mansion between 1pm and 4pm. Jackson refused to take them.
‘Three days earlier, he had said he had “made a deal with the devil”,’ Halperin says. ‘I assume he was referring to the concert promoters.’
Jackson was declared dead at the UCLA hospital in Los Angeles on June 25
He was scheduled to rehearse two dance numbers that afternoon with his youngest son, Blanket, seven, who was to appear with him at the O2 series. ‘Michael cancelled the rehearsal,’ says Halperin. ‘He couldn’t keep in sync because of the drugs and the pain.’
At about 4.30pm, the door to Michael’s suite was shut. No one could tell Halperin with certainty how the star occupied himself in the next six ‘missing hours’, but a toxicology report indicates he continued to ingest drugs.
At about 10.40pm, his staff heard music coming from the room. When the door swung open again, about two hours later, Halperin says, he seemed morose and consumed with fear and anger. The star had changed back into pyjamas and a shabby pair of brown slippers.
Aides told Halperin they saw him sitting on his bed. ‘He’d been listening to classics for a couple of hours,’ the author says. ‘Then he suddenly switched to the Gipsy Kings, which was odd. They weren’t Michael’s thing. His mood was extremely chaotic.’
Jackson's distress showed during his final hours as he started listening to music by the Gipsy Kings and reading the bible
At 1.20am, he received a phone call. ‘It was from one of his advisers,’ Halperin says. ‘He got in a shouting match about finances. That was when Michael said he was calling off the tour. He said some of his advisers didn’t care about his welfare. There were undesirables around him who he feared would hurt him physically and financially. He might have gone along if it had been five shows, he said, but he couldn’t do 50.’
Halperin adds: ‘Michael was visibly upset. I’ve been told he was crying. He demanded an aide call his father. He said his father was the only person who could “clean up the mess”. The aide told him there was no answer and promised to call him the next day.’
Halperin claims that for weeks, whenever Joe Jackson drove to his son’s mansion, he was blocked by security guards. ‘These people were scared that if Joe got wind of the shape Michael was in, he would cancel all 50 shows,’ Halperin says. ‘Joe always told his children, “You either perform at your maximum capacity or you don’t perform.’’’
A judge has approved deals for the sale of Michael Jackson merchandise, like these stage gloves
In the early hours of the morning of his death, Jackson began to scribble poems. ‘He was as high as a kite. What he wrote was dark, sort of frightening,’ says Halperin. ‘The poems were found, hanging in his room on strings. He was over the edge.’
For the next 40 minutes, he sat on his bed, crying and reading the Bible. At 1.51am, he ordered an aide to fetch Dr Murray. He had hired the Trinidadian-born cardiologist, who was burdened with debt, to help him deal with the stress of the London tour after four other physicians turned down the job. ‘Michael was overheard telling Murray he was ready to go to sleep, ’ says Halperin.
At 1.57am, Michael was seen going into the doctor’s room, says Halperin, who claims Murray ‘routinely’ would give him a sleeping potion that included the anaesthetic Propofol, also known as Diprivan.
‘The Diprivan wouldn’t be administered in Michael’s room but in the doctor’s room which was kept under lock and key,’ says Halperin.
The star muttered his last known words to an aide at about 2am: ‘Michael told him, “Don’t worry about me. I am going to sleep.” Twenty five minutes later, Dr Murray was spotted leaving his room. Michael was in a deep sleep. He never woke up.’
Authorities are investigating Dr Murray for suspected manslaughter. The physician has strongly maintained his innocence.
‘It may be difficult to prove exactly what killed Michael. He was an extremely sick man,’ says Halperin. ‘The one thing that is certain is that his father would have beaten down the gates to rescue him if he’d been informed of the state that he was in.
‘No one can say how long he would have lived but would have survived that night.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1205277/Reading-Bible-listening-Gipsy-Kings--final-chaotic-hours-Michael-Jackson-s-tortured-life.html#ixzz0NdVxXkZe

[Sioux_Girl]

Oh boy

PHOTO: Mark's daughter Harriet (right) shares Paris's facial features (left)
I'm real father of Michael Jackson's girl, claims Mark Lester

CLOSEST OF PALS: Mark says he donated sperm so Jacko could start family of his own

SPERM GIFT: Donor Mark

BIRTH RIDDLE: Mark believes Paris has his genes

Michael Jackson bombshell: I'm real dad of Paris

By Guy Basnett, 09/08/2009

WHO'S the daddy? Michael Jackson's dearest friend Mark Lester looks at the King of Pop's daughter Paris and is convinced HE is.

In an astonishing interview, Jacko's long term pal confessed to the News of the World that he secretly donated sperm to help the singer have children.


Until two weeks ago the child star of Oscar- winning classic Oliver! had not told ANYONE his story - not even his wife. Even now he has only shared it with his closest family members.


But today Mark, 51, is speaking out, convinced by the uncanny and growing likeness of 11-year-old Paris to his 15-year-old daughter Harriet (pictured above). He is certain he fathered them BOTH. And he has pledged to take a paternity test to PROVE it.

You can see Mark speaking on video below on this page.

"It's been a secret for so long," said Mark. "In 1996 Michael asked me if I would give him my sperm and I said yes. It was a gift to him, no money was paid, it was something I was honoured to do. He wanted children so badly."


And Mark, now an osteopath and acupuncture specialist, is only speaking out now because after Jacko's death he fears he will be manouevred out of the lives of his Godchildren - Paris, 12-year-old Prince and Blanket, seven.


Battle

"With Michael's mother Katherine now their legal guardian it's like the kids are being isolated," he said. "Up until Michael's memorial I was in touch with them on a weekly basis.


"I'm the Godparent to them and Michael was Godparent to all my four kids. Our two families spent a lot of time together, and had a lot fun together. Now I'm not able to have any communication with the children. My repeated phone calls aren't returned and emails go unanswered.


"This isn't what Michael would have wanted. I feel I have to come forward, as my only way of saying, 'Please don't shut me out!'"


Mark said he has spoken to lawyers to establish his rights to contact the children. He then revealed in detail how Jackson:


HATCHED the sperm donor plan because he was scared to have normal SEX.
JOKED about making donor babies using a TURKEY BASTER.
BOOKED Mark into a special London clinic for the procedure, and
SHARED countless holidays and intimate moments with the Lester family.

The plan for Mark to donate sperm to Jackson - whose hits include The Girl Is Mine-came in a series of incredibly candid phone calls. The pair had been the closest of friends after immediately bonding when Jackson first invited Mark to his room in London's Montcalm Hotel for a meeting in 1981.


Both had been thrust into the public spotlight at an early age - Mark in the title role of 1968 smash hit Oliver! and Jackson from his days as fresh-faced star of the Jackson Five.


But by January 1996 - with both men then aged 37 - Michael confessed his desperation to be a dad. At that stage Mark already had three young daughters of his own, Lucy, Harriet, and Olivia.


But Jackson was worried he would never father his own kids because his crippling shyness, and fear of the scary groupies who came on to him, meant he would not have sex with anyone.


"Michael found it very difficult to have relationships with women," said Mark. "He found the sexual act something he couldn't do. When he was about 16 or 17 he had a very famous female child star who basically jumped on him, naked in his hotel room, and tried to seduce him.


"He became very scared, and found it so disturbing he couldn't perform. Michael wasn't gay. But I'd say he was asexual.


"He was very conscious of his own body. He had vitiligo (a skin lightening condition). Believe me, it wasn't just his face that was white, he had it all over.


"Then in one of our regular phone conversations he said he realised having kids was a natural thing but that he just couldn't do it.


"I mentioned the fact there are alternative ways of going about it. We even joked that you can use a turkey baster, referring to artificial insemination. "I think he'd already tried using his own sperm but it hadn't worked for him, so I made an off-the-cuff comment saying: 'Try mine!'


"He'd already asked me how many times I'd had to try in producing my three girls. And I'd said that I didn't need to worry, because it seemed that I couldn't STOP having kids.


"So after I said 'Try mine' there was this silence on the phone for a moment. Then Michael said, 'Did you mean that?'


"Around a month or so later we had another chat about it and he said 'You know you were talking about the sperm donation, would you do it?' I ummed a bit but then said 'Yeah.' I half expected it not to happen.


"Michael was prone to say things that might not then happen. For instance, Richard Branson was launching plans for his new shuttle into space, and Michael called me saying he wanted me to come with him on a trip to the moon.


Aura

"He said he wanted to moonwalk on the moon, and wanted me there to be his buddy.


"I didn't expect it to happen, but I accepted. He had an incredible aura about him. Whatever he said, however short notice, you'd go along with it.


"Sperm donation was the same. It's something I wouldn't do for anyone else. But I wanted to do it for him. I didn't know if it would happen. But I was honoured to do it." Mark, who now lives in Cheltenham with second wife Lisa and the four children from his first marriage - Harriet, Lucy 18, Olivia, 14, and Felix, 10 - was told to expect a phone call.


That conversation was shortly after Jackson split from his first wife, Elvis Presley's daughter Lisa Marie, in January 1996.


And around a month later, in March, an employee at a confidential private clinic in London's Harley Street, rang Mark to set up an appointment.


Mark, who had given up acting, was working in London on a course at the British School of Acupuncture in Holborn, just a few stops away on the Underground.


I'm Jacko girl's real Dad
Mark said: "The talk with Michael about had at first been light-hearted. It was all a bit of a giggle. There was nothing that serious until I got the call from the clinic.


"I arranged to to in one lunchtime and they said I mustn't have sex for three or four days before."


Over the next four weeks he was asked to give three samples of sperm.


Before his first donation there was a blood test. Then he was shown to a room and given a small plastic cup to keep his side of the arrangement.


"I went in a bit sheepishly and came out a like a teenage boy leaving a porn film," recalled Mark.


"I'm not sure if the clinic knew that it was anything to do with Michael Jackson. I don't think they knew where the sperm was going or who it was for. I just did it and walked away from it.


"I think they separate some of the fluid and freeze it. From then on it can be transported anywhere quite easily."


Jealousy

Incredibly Mark didn't tell his then-wife Jane what he'd done for his old pal.


He said: "She'd have knocked it on the head. She had an animosity to Michael, maybe because of our closeness. There was a jealousy thing going on so I didn't discuss it with ANYONE. I just did it, and put it out of my mind. I didn't even know if I was the only person Michael asked." In fact the donation was never mentioned again even between the two men, despite the closest of relationships that endured right up to Jackson's sudden death in Los Angeles six weeks ago.


Eight months after the donor procedures, in November 1996, Jackson announced he had married skin-clinic worker Debbie Rowe.


And three months after that the couple revealed the birth of their first child Prince.


Paris followed just over a year later, on April 3, 1998. And Rowe has admitted being artificially inseminated using anonymous sperm.


Mark told us: "Michael never mentioned who the artificial insemination would be with. I later assumed it would be his wife. We just never spoke about it again."


But as time went on Mark noticed a growing similarity between Paris and his own daughter Harriet, born around four years earlier in December 1993.


Their pictures clearly show both share the same facial bone structure that also made Mark a child star when he first hit the big screen as Dickens' cherubic street urchin.


Mark said: "Paris is very pale, with blue eyes. All my daughters, apart from my eldest, are fair with blue eyes. So many people have commented on how alike Harriet and Paris look. Our families often holidayed together and staff, especially nannies, watching the children play together would say how similar the two girls looked."


Jackson turned to Mark for support during the most difficult periods of his life, and the Lesters made countless trips, including stays at Neverland ranch, to be with him and his family.


Mark was with Jacko in a Miami hotel when he watched the Martin Bashir documentary which led to his 2005 trial for sex abuse.


And he joined the star in Bahrain after he was cleared of all charges.


He was also in Berlin's Adlon Hotel in 2002 when Jackson hit the headlines dangling Blanket from a fourth floor balcony.


And the pals had made plans for their families to spend this summer together at rented houses in England.


Relaxed

The trust between the two men was so great that during Jackson's visit to London in March, to launch his Docklands comeback concerts, Mark took the singer's children to London's West End shops and the circus.


That was the last time Mark saw Jackson. They travelled together in the car to the press conference at the O2 arena. And the whole Lester family spent the weekend with Jacko at the five-star Lanesborough Hotel.


Mark said: "Michael was really relaxed. He wasn't unfit and showed no sign of being unwell."


In his last few months Jackson was ringing Mark at home every Sunday. They last spoke five days before the singer's death.


"We were on the phone for about an hour," said Mark. "Michael wanted to speak to all the children, one by one. We were talking about the show. He wouldn't tell me what was in it. He wanted it to be a surprise."


The last time Mark spoke to Michael's children was at the memorial service. He was walking past the convoy of family cars when Paris spotted him and called him over.


Hugged

"The children were in the back of a car with Katherine (their grandmother)," said Mark. "I didn't want to intrude too much. But Paris wound down the window and we hugged.


"She said they had presents for us all back at the house, gifts they were planning to bring to England this summer. I was telling her please not to worry about it. I've been very worried about how the children would react to everything.


"But I spoke to them a day after Michael died and was amazed at how strong they were being. I was in bits on the phone and Paris said, 'Daddy is with the angels.'


"I do feel a definite bonding with Paris and I think there's a definite possibility that she's part of me.


"I want to have contact with her, Prince and Blanket regardless of whether any or all of them are mine. I think it's cruel that I've now been excluded from them."


Mark is also concerned about the kids being pushed into becoming Jehovah's Witnesses, the strict religion favoured by granny Katherine. His worry grew after spotting a photograph of Paris clutching a Witness book.


"Michael would have hated it," he said. "I respect their beliefs but in my opinion it's not going to be very healthy for the kids."


Speaking from his French holiday villa near Cannes he added: "I'd like regular contact with the children. It feels like they're being isolated. They need to be interacting with other kids, getting back a normal life, and being with friends.


"I've tried to get in touch, spoken to the Jackson household, left messages. But no one's called me back. And they know damn well that I've been a part of those kids' lives for years." Now Mark - whose videoed interview can be seen here - has spoken to lawyers about being able to see the children in future.


He added: "I'll push all the way for contact with her, Prince and Blanket.


"I feel it's important. I love those kids so much. We've had great times together. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing speaking out. But I'm not trying to make any claim on anything. Even if it's proven Paris is biologically mine I wouldn't see her as anything other than Michael's daughter. He raised her.


"Michael was a brilliant, brilliant dad. Those kids are Michael's children. He was their father. End of story. But I just want to make sure they're happy


http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/showbiz/michael_jackson/443550/Im-real-father-Michael-Jacksons-girl-claims-Mark-Lester.html

[Trailblazer]

Wonder how many others will come out claiming to be the sperm donor??? Deja Vue of the Anna Nicole Saga...

[Roamer]

http://www.abc3340.com/news/stories/0809/647946.html




LONDON - A British tabloid reported Saturday that the godfather of Michael Jackson's three children claims to be the father of the singer's daughter Paris. The News of the World quotes Jackson's longtime friend Mark Lester as saying that he "gave Michael my sperm so that he could have kids - and I believe Paris is my daughter."

The newspaper also quotes Lester, is a 51-year-old former child star known for his lead role in the 1968 movie version of the state show "Oliver!" as saying he's willing to take a paternity test.

In a video interview with Lester broadcast on the News of the World Web site, Lester said he donated his sperm at a London clinic. He said Jackson was married to Debbie Rowe at the time.








"She's the birth mother of the children so I naturally assumed the sperm donation would obviously have gone into Debbie and Debbie would have borne the children," he said.

He said Paris resembled his own 15-year-old daughter Harriet.

Rowe said he had made the revelations because he has "concerns about the welfare and upbringing of the children."

"It's a contact issue," he said on the video. "I dearly want to remain in contact with those kids and I feel now this is the only way I can ensure that."

Jackson and Lester became friends 27 years ago when Jackson's manager told Lester the singer wanted to meet him. Lester lives in Cheltenham, about 100 miles (160 kilometers) west of London.

Calls to Lester's home were not immediately returned.

[Sioux_Girl]

Wonder how many others will come out claiming to be the sperm donor??? Deja Vue of the Anna Nicole Saga...

I agree but we do know that Mark was the childrens god father and was close to them. I do think he believes he COULD be the father - whether he is or not is another matter.

[Roamer]

Don't these people know or care what this stuff must be doing to those kids???

[Sioux_Girl]

Don't these people know or care what this stuff must be doing to those kids???

Roamer yea thats what worries me also...there going to need serious help before all this is finished :( Their dad dies..they discover they have a mother ( ok they could have known about her before i guess) and then there dad isnt there dad at all possibly and thats without the Omar thing.

[LiveLaughLuv]

Jackson insurance excluded illicit drug use
Aug. 7, 2009, 6:34 PM EST
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The insurance taken out on Michael Jackson for his London concert series does not cover cancellations if the pop star was found to have illegally possessed drugs or was involved in the "illicit taking of drugs," according to a copy of the policy provided Friday to The Associated Press.

It was not immediately clear whether any medications Jackson was taking would negate a payout up to $17.5 million, which would ultimately benefit his estate.

Jackson's doctor administered multiple sedatives along with the powerful anesthetic propofol, a potentially lethal combination, hours before the singer died June 25, a law enforcement official who requested anonymity because the death investigation is ongoing told the AP.

The insurance policy, covering the first 13 shows of the 50-show run, was taken out by Jackson and concert promoter AEG Live in April. Such a policy and its provisions are considered standard for events on the scale of the one for which Jackson was preparing.

A New York doctor with no connection to AEG Live conducted a medical exam of Jackson in Los Angeles in February. AEG Live Chief Executive Randy Phillips said he was told by the insurance underwriter that Jackson passed "with flying colors." The exam results were shown to the insurers, but not to AEG Live.

A copy of the insurance policy shows that it had several clauses that would prevent a payout, including if the singer concealed information or acted carelessly to increase the risk of a no-show.

AEG Live and the special administrators of Jackson's estate have been moving quickly to cut business deals that will help the concert promoter recoup the more than $30 million it is currently owed by his estate. An insurance payout would go a long way to reducing the estate's obligation to AEG Live.

The promoter is also in line to quickly cover its costs if a $60 million payment from Sony Corp.'s movie division to distribute a film based on rehearsal footage is approved by a court Monday.

Also in the works for court approval is a merchandising deal with Bravado, a unit of Vivendi SA's Universal Music Group, which had signed a deal with AEG Live in July and has been selling Jackson goods online since then.

The estate is in line to receive 90 percent of the proceeds from the business deals after AEG Live's initial costs have been covered, according to documents filed in court this week.
http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=425132&GT1=28102

[LiveLaughLuv]

from post #191...
'He begged to see his father but they lied to him. They told him they couldn’t get hold of him. If Joe Jackson had been allowed to see him that night, I believe Michael would still be alive.’

Two days before his death Michael Jackson was rehearsing in Los Angeles for a series of 50 concerts due to be staged at the O2 in London
The singer, a chronic insomniac, got up at noon on June 24. ‘He had been up until at least 4am, he was so wound up,’ Halperin says. ‘Usually he would lunch at 1pm but that day he barely ate a crumb,’ says the author. ‘He was complaining that his throat and lungs hurt. He also had wrenched his back during rehearsals for the London tour.’

At 12.30pm, the writer says, he began to inject himself with Demerol and lidocaine, as well as a psychiatric drug. At 2.40pm, he emerged from his bedroom, still clad in his pyjamas. ‘He was a bit high,’ says Halperin, ‘but he struck up a conversation in the living room with an aide. He reminisced about his childhood.’ The singer then retreated and got dressed. Three phone calls came into the mansion between 1pm and 4pm. Jackson refused to take them.
‘Three days earlier, he had said he had “made a deal with the devil”,’ Halperin says. ‘I assume he was referring to the concert promoters.’

Jackson was declared dead at the UCLA hospital in Los Angeles on June 25
He was scheduled to rehearse two dance numbers that afternoon with his youngest son, Blanket, seven, who was to appear with him at the O2 series. ‘Michael cancelled the rehearsal,’ says Halperin. ‘He couldn’t keep in sync because of the drugs and the pain.’

At about 4.30pm, the door to Michael’s suite was shut. No one could tell Halperin with certainty how the star occupied himself in the next six ‘missing hours’, but a toxicology report indicates he continued to ingest drugs.
At about 10.40pm, his staff heard music coming from the room. When the door swung open again, about two hours later, Halperin says, he seemed morose and consumed with fear and anger. The star had changed back into pyjamas and a shabby pair of brown slippers.

Aides told Halperin they saw him sitting on his bed. ‘He’d been listening to classics for a couple of hours,’ the author says. ‘Then he suddenly switched to the Gipsy Kings, which was odd. They weren’t Michael’s thing. His mood was extremely chaotic.’

Jackson's distress showed during his final hours as he started listening to music by the Gipsy Kings and reading the bible
At 1.20am, he received a phone call. ‘It was from one of his advisers,’ Halperin says. ‘He got in a shouting match about finances. That was when Michael said he was calling off the tour. He said some of his advisers didn’t care about his welfare. There were undesirables around him who he feared would hurt him physically and financially. He might have gone along if it had been five shows, he said, but he couldn’t do 50.’

Halperin adds: ‘Michael was visibly upset. I’ve been told he was crying. He demanded an aide call his father. He said his father was the only person who could “clean up the mess”. The aide told him there was no answer and promised to call him the next day.’

Halperin claims that for weeks, whenever Joe Jackson drove to his son’s mansion, he was blocked by security guards. ‘These people were scared that if Joe got wind of the shape Michael was in, he would cancel all 50 shows,’ Halperin says. ‘Joe always told his children, “You either perform at your maximum capacity or you don’t perform.’’’

If whoever wrote this article knew what was going on, why didn't they raise the issue?

He hates his father yet he calls for him when he can't get himself out of this jam and the deal with the devil. JJ is the only one who could clean up this mess! I think the pushing of the 50 shows had Michael worried he couldn't meet that deadline.

Seems whatever psyciatric drug Michael was using gave me paranoia. You don't just mix a cocktail of drugs not knowing what one will do against the other...that is a danger in itself...

I wonder if Blanket has the dance move his daddy has...he was to perform with him in London...the hardship these children must carry for the rest of their lives...Michael was gone too soon but he will leave a legacy for the next generations to come...I loved to watch him perform, he was a great entertainer...:cray:

My biggest heartache are for the children hearing all these horrible stories and how no one tried to save Michael.

You have men coming out of the woodwork to say they are the childrens parent. When they donated their sperm that is where it stops. They have nothing else to do with these children and should leave well enough alone, for the sake of the children...:mad: By all accounts Michael was their father...

[Alibar]

Don't these people know or care what this stuff must be doing to those kids???

I don't think they care in the least. And WHO said Michael begged to see his father? Who? Who was there and reporting this information? The tabloid reporter surely has a source... someone who was in the room during those last hours. No source? It didn't happen.

The men claiming to be sperm donors don't love the children, imo. If they cared about the children, they would keep quiet.

[texanne]

It is time for all the headline seekers and hanger ons to step back and let the Jackson family alone. I do not blame them for blocking access to the children. They need time to just heal away from the glare of cameras and the hoopla of "I'm the daddy" keerappp.

[Sioux_Girl]

I don't think they care in the least. And WHO said Michael begged to see his father? Who? Who was there and reporting this information? The tabloid reporter surely has a source... someone who was in the room during those last hours. No source? It didn't happen.

The men claiming to be sperm donors don't love the children, imo. If they cared about the children, they would keep quiet.

In fairness..they could have concerns for the way they believe the children will be raised. I think many are concerned regarding that and we dont even know the children.

[Oceanblueeyes]

Don't these people know or care what this stuff must be doing to those kids???

I have never seen anything so bizarre in my entire life including when ANS died.

All the tabloid trash that saturates the public daily. It is enough to make me gag and actually feel embarrassed that some in my country seem to actually believe all of these ghoulish unknown inside sources.

Just like in the article above about what he did the last 12 hours of his life. Its totally vile, wicked and absurd. We know that MJ did a full run through of 11 or 12 song/dance routines and didn't even leave the Center until around 12:30 am and it was the best performance since doing the rehearsals. So MJ had to be upbeat about that when he was even mesmerizing the crew that watched him.

I truly think these people think they can just put anything they want out and think most of the public is going to lap it up like gravy with no questions asked and sadly many of them do.

I am so glad that they are burying MJ in the Jackson Family burial plot. They have taken him away from all the media and taint and he has come full circle now and rests among his family as it should be.

imo

[Alibar]

In fairness..they could have concerns for the way they believe the children will be raised. I think many are concerned regarding that and we dont even know the children.

Sioux, in my wildest imagining I cannot see where these people have any input at all or ever in how the children will be raised. It has been decided, generally, as per MJ's wishes, that Katherine will have the children. That's it. It's not my business nor my concern to worry about the children. They seem to be healthy, intelligent youngsters. If I spend any time at all actually worrying how the children will be raised, I have a huge problem and need to get a life. I think the same applies to the people who want to claim admission into the children's life.

[Ann]

I agree but we do know that Mark was the childrens god father and was close to them. I do think he believes he COULD be the father - whether he is or not is another matter.

It sounds like the real problem is that Katherine is not allowing people who were friends with Michael and close to the children to have contact with them and are isloating them from people the children may want to see. IMO the kids should have some say about it.

This may be an unpopular opinion here, but I think it was wrong for Michael to lie about being their bio dad if he wasn't and if that's what he did.

I compare it to a situation where the children are adopted. Most adopted children are told that they were adopted as soon as they are old enough to understand. I've had two friends who were adopted (different families). Both of them when they got older wanted to find their bio parents. It didn't mean they didn't love their adoptive parents or see them as their real parents.

The one in particular did track down the agency from which she was adopted but they wouldn't tell her anything and she was very disappointed. In many cases the bio parents don't want their identity given out to the child and don't want any contact with them. There are also medical reasons why a child should at least know their bio parents' medical history.

It is beginning to sound like Michael asked a number of his friends to donate sperm to as sperm bank and never let them know whether or not he used it. That would explain why Klein was not positive about whether he's a bio father or not.

If that is what Michael did, IMO it was kind of selfish of him to let these men have relationships with the kids and then leave these men to wonder whether they were the bio dads.

BTW I do think that Paris has a very strong resemblance to Lester's daughters, and I can understand why he would think he may be her bio dad.

[Ann]

I saw the Mark Lester article yesterday and chose not to bring it here, but since it is here, I commented on it as others have. I believe that is my prerogative as it is everyone elses. I also think I should be able to do that and give my opinion about it even though that opinion may not line up with the status quo.

[Sioux_Girl]

Sioux, in my wildest imagining I cannot see where these people have any input at all or ever in how the children will be raised. It has been decided, generally, as per MJ's wishes, that Katherine will have the children. That's it. It's not my business nor my concern to worry about the children. They seem to be healthy, intelligent youngsters. If I spend any time at all actually worrying how the children will be raised, I have a huge problem and need to get a life. I think the same applies to the people who want to claim admission into the children's life.

In fairness and i will say again - Mark Lester is the childrens GodFather. He was appointed as that by Michael. Because of Michael appointing him this it IS lesters concern how the children should be raised and in all honesty i find it sad that again Katherine doesnt seem to be respecting Michaels wishes and is trying to cut the contact off between these children and there god father.

[Sioux_Girl]

It sounds like the real problem is that Katherine is not allowing people who were friends with Michael and close to the children to have contact with them and are isloating them from people the children may want to see. IMO the kids should have some say about it.

This may be an unpopular opinion here, but I think it was wrong for Michael to lie about being their bio dad if he wasn't and if that's what he did.

I compare it to a situation where the children are adopted. Most adopted children are told that they were adopted as soon as they are old enough to understand. I've had two friends who were adopted (different families). Both of them when they got older wanted to find their bio parents. It didn't mean they didn't love their adoptive parents or see them as their real parents.

The one in particular did track down the agency from which she was adopted but they wouldn't tell her anything and she was very disappointed. In many cases the bio parents don't want their identity given out to the child and don't want any contact with them. There are also medical reasons why a child should at least know their bio parents' medical history.

It is beginning to sound like Michael asked a number of his friends to donate sperm to as sperm bank and never let them know whether or not he used it. That would explain why Klein was not positive about whether he's a bio father or not.

If that is what Michael did, IMO it was kind of selfish of him to let these men have relationships with the kids and then leave these men to wonder whether they were the bio dads.

BTW I do think that Paris has a very strong resemblance to Lester's daughters, and I can understand why he would think he may be her bio dad.

My situation was different - My mum remarried when i was 4 or 5 and i didnt realise the man she married wasnt my dad until i was about 10 yrs old..when the ex partner of my aunt ( she was in a battered wives home cos of him) wanted the number of where she was. Being a kid i said if you dont leave me alone i will tell my dad and he said haha thats not your dad he just married your mum. For sometime...it took me some time to accept it all..and even him i guess..so...i can see where it would been best had Michael said to the children - I love you very much but..although im your daddy someone helped to make you or words to that effect before it all came out and the kids heard elsewhere.

[Ann]

In fairness and i will say again - Mark Lester is the childrens GodFather. He was appointed as that by Michael. Because of Michael appointing him this it IS lesters concern how the children should be raised and in all honesty i find it sad that again Katherine doesnt seem to be respecting Michaels wishes and is trying to cut the contact off between these children and there god father.

I agree. That is the obligation of a godparent. It is a parent wish that the godparents be involved in the spiritual upbringing of the child if the parent is no longer there.

[Ann]

My situation was different - My mum remarried when i was 4 or 5 and i didnt realise the man she married wasnt my dad until i was about 10 yrs old..when the ex partner of my aunt ( she was in a battered wives home cos of him) wanted the number of where she was. Being a kid i said if you dont leave me alone i will tell my dad and he said haha thats not your dad he just married your mum. For sometime...it took me some time to accept it all..and even him i guess..so...i can see where it would been best had Michael said to the children - I love you very much but..although im your daddy someone helped to make you or words to that effect before it all came out and the kids heard elsewhere.
That's sad that you were told that way.

It's also sad that everything is hitting these children all at once. There's another story out there which allegedly identifies Blanket's mother--a doctor in England.

The good thing is that there is going to be a psychologist working with the kids. Even though it was to be to help them adjust to Debbie as mom, I'm sure all these other issues will be dealt with as well.

[Firehead]

Hi All... I am back !! I have tried to catch up and read what I missed during the past week but I just could not resist putting my two cents in. I think it is shameful that Klein even had the gall to have a representive at the custody hearing. Whether he is the bio father, he is just a sperm donor. That is it. I have to wonder if MJ even knew that this was a possibility or not. All of the bull that is coming out is hurting the children and no one seems to care.

We do not know what Michael has told the children or not. But to find out stuff in this way, just shows there are no limits to what people will do to achieve their own goal and think only for themselves. I think it is about time that EVERYONE think of the three children that are left behind when MJ died.

Katherine should back off the estate. Joe should live in Vegas and Debbie should take care of her horses and collect the money that MJ told her he would pay. I think the executors should clear up all debts that MJ owed at the time of his death, including Rowe's payment in full. And plan for the children's future. I think it is sad to think that all of these people crawled out from under a rock holding their hand out.... palm side up. It is disgusting to me.

[texanne]

Oh, I think they should just take a public vote and allow every Dick, Tom, & Harry that wants a little camera time pester the children. How do we know what the children have been told by MJ or by the family? We don't. MJ's wishes as to his children are being met. Anyone have a link where some sort of church ceremony was held naming the godfather,..where a promise was made to guide their spiritual growth? All we have is a few photos and other people's word. For what it is worth...MJ's children do not favor either man and have a darker complexion than the other guy's daughter. The eyes are a totally different shade of blue. I see the mother in them somewhat...but their complexion is very tan. Who cares, anyway. They are the children of MJ...and that is who made a will determining who would care for them in the event of his death. He did not set up any "parenting by committee" clause. I realize I may irritate some...and I really do not intend to. I am just posting my opinion...as we all are.

[Ann]

Hi All... I am back !! I have tried to catch up and read what I missed during the past week but I just could not resist putting my two cents in. I think it is shameful that Klein even had the gall to have a representive at the custody hearing. Whether he is the bio father, he is just a sperm donor. That is it. I have to wonder if MJ even knew that this was a possibility or not. All of the bull that is coming out is hurting the children and no one seems to care.

We do not know what Michael has told the children or not. But to find out stuff in this way, just shows there are no limits to what people will do to achieve their own goal and think only for themselves. I think it is about time that EVERYONE think of the three children that are left behind when MJ died.

Katherine should back off the estate. Joe should live in Vegas and Debbie should take care of her horses and collect the money that MJ told her he would pay. I think the executors should clear up all debts that MJ owed at the time of his death, including Rowe's payment in full. And plan for the children's future. I think it is sad to think that all of these people crawled out from under a rock holding their hand out.... palm side up. It is disgusting to me.
So far none of these people have asked for money.

IMO the people so far who seem to have their palms out the most are the Jackson family.

:hide:

[Ann]

Since this is the present topic...

Blanket Jackson's Mother is a UK Doctor
August 05, 2009

A source close to the Jackson family has revealed to our investigators that Blanket Jackson's biological mother is in fact 32 year old Brit, Dr Susan Essien Etok.

The London based beauty, had a brief "secret" romance with Jackson in 2001, before agreeing to becoming his surrogate mother.

"They loved each other but their relationship was never going to work out. She wanted to focus on her academic career and shunned media attention. Michael wanted more children and Susan finally agreed to carry his child, " the family friend explains.

Contrary to previous reports, Susan was impregnated with sperm believed to be supplied by Jackson's Dermatologist, Dr Arnold Klein.

"Michael is not Blanket's biological father, he used a known sperm donor of anglo-saxon descent," confirms the family source.

A former Neverland employee, who wishes to remain anonymous said, "During the pregnancy, Susan was based in England and flew back to San Diego to give birth. After the birth, Susan remained friends with Jackson but Blanket and the other two children do not know her true identity."

It is believed that the 32 year old Medical Scientist was paid an undisclosed fortune by Jackson and signed an agreement to keep her identity under wraps.

It appears that the identity of Blanket's mother is the best-kept Jackson secret. How this will affect child custody issues remains to be seen. Dr Etok has declined to comment.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2019498/blanket_jacksons_mother_is_a_uk_doctor.html?cat=2


Etok's Picture:

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-308923

[texanne]

I think a little camera time and publicity is what the "circus of clowns" are after. It means more than money to them...and ultimately brings them cash for interviews, etc. Some of the trash mags pay big bucks for interviews....big bucks. They are not obligated to reveal the amount to us, or even if they have been paid. It is a revolting reality when a star is involved.

One of my favorite expressions used by the trash media is "a source close to" and "wants to remain anonymous". One does not know whether to laugh or cry at this feeding frenzy.

[Firehead]

So far none of these people have asked for money.

IMO the people so far who seem to have their palms out the most are the Jackson family.

:hide:

Ann I don't think that they have to ASK for money. If they are to take care of the children, they will GET money. That is a given. I like to see how many would crawl back under their rock IF the children were not entitled to the Jackson estate.

As far as his family goes, nothing has changed there. MJ was supporting most of them while alive and they still want that. That was his choice to do so. It is also his choice that none of the siblings have been named in the will that we know of.

[Ann]

I think a little camera time and publicity is what the "circus of clowns" are after. It means more than money to them...and ultimately brings them cash for interviews, etc. Some of the trash mags pay big bucks for interviews....big bucks. They are not obligated to reveal the amount to us, or even if they have been paid. It is a revolting reality when a star is involved.

One of my favorite expressions used by the trash media is "a source close to" and "wants to remain anonymous". One does not know whether to laugh or cry at this feeding frenzy.

La Toya, Tito, Jermaine, and Joe have also gotten paid for interviews and pictures so they also need to be included in that category.

[Firehead]

Since this is the present topic...

Blanket Jackson's Mother is a UK Doctor
August 05, 2009

A source close to the Jackson family has revealed to our investigators that Blanket Jackson's biological mother is in fact 32 year old Brit, Dr Susan Essien Etok.

The London based beauty, had a brief "secret" romance with Jackson in 2001, before agreeing to becoming his surrogate mother.

"They loved each other but their relationship was never going to work out. She wanted to focus on her academic career and shunned media attention. Michael wanted more children and Susan finally agreed to carry his child, " the family friend explains.

Contrary to previous reports, Susan was impregnated with sperm believed to be supplied by Jackson's Dermatologist, Dr Arnold Klein.

"Michael is not Blanket's biological father, he used a known sperm donor of anglo-saxon descent," confirms the family source.

A former Neverland employee, who wishes to remain anonymous said, "During the pregnancy, Susan was based in England and flew back to San Diego to give birth. After the birth, Susan remained friends with Jackson but Blanket and the other two children do not know her true identity."

It is believed that the 32 year old Medical Scientist was paid an undisclosed fortune by Jackson and signed an agreement to keep her identity under wraps.

It appears that the identity of Blanket's mother is the best-kept Jackson secret. How this will affect child custody issues remains to be seen. Dr Etok has declined to comment.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2019498/blanket_jacksons_mother_is_a_uk_doctor.html?cat=2


Etok's Picture:

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-308923



Sorry, I don't see any resemblance to the woman named.

[Ann]

Ann I don't think that they have to ASK for money. If they are to take care of the children, they will GET money. That is a given. I like to see how many would crawl back under their rock IF the children were not entitled to the Jackson estate.

As far as his family goes, nothing has changed there. MJ was supporting most of them while alive and they still want that. That was his choice to do so. It is also his choice that none of the siblings have been named in the will that we know of.

Again, at this point I haven't seen that any of them have asked for custody or money.

[Firehead]

Again, at this point I haven't seen that any of them have asked for custody or money.

I don't buy into the fact that Klein was a friend and is interested in the childrens well being story. From the moment that Jackson died, his postion as father has been in the news and questioned.

Do you believe that was the truth when his attorney appeared at the custody hearing?

[Ann]

Sorry, I don't see any resemblance to the woman named.


People can go back and forth all they want about who they think are the bio parents, it really doesn't prove anything.

The only way to know for sure is with a DNA test.

The only salient issue is will the court ever order one.


I think the probate judge made a HUGE mistake in not appointing a lawyer for the children during the custody phase. I think it very well may come back and bite the judge in the butt.

IMO the children's interests were not independently protected in court. With so much money attached to them they certainly should have had a guardian ad litem who was a lawyer appointed to them by the court. Basically the children were given no other options besides Katherine.

[Oceanblueeyes]

It sounds like the real problem is that Katherine is not allowing people who were friends with Michael and close to the children to have contact with them and are isolating them from people the children may want to see. IMO the kids should have some say about it.

This may be an unpopular opinion here, but I think it was wrong for Michael to lie about being their bio dad if he wasn't and if that's what he did.

I compare it to a situation where the children are adopted. Most adopted children are told that they were adopted as soon as they are old enough to understand. I've had two friends who were adopted (different families). Both of them when they got older wanted to find their bio parents. It didn't mean they didn't love their adoptive parents or see them as their real parents.

The one in particular did track down the agency from which she was adopted but they wouldn't tell her anything and she was very disappointed. In many cases the bio parents don't want their identity given out to the child and don't want any contact with them. There are also medical reasons why a child should at least know their bio parents' medical history.

It is beginning to sound like Michael asked a number of his friends to donate sperm to as sperm bank and never let them know whether or not he used it. That would explain why Klein was not positive about whether he's a bio father or not.

If that is what Michael did, IMO it was kind of selfish of him to let these men have relationships with the kids and then leave these men to wonder whether they were the bio dads.

BTW I do think that Paris has a very strong resemblance to Lester's daughters, and I can understand why he would think he may be her bio dad.

The eyes are much different to me. I don't really see a resemblance except they are around the same age.

But let me ask you something please. How do any of us know what MJ told his children? Children are told at an age appropriate time when they become mature enough to understand. I think he talked with them about a lot of things but really it isn't our business what he told them just like it isn't if another children came from a sperm donor or even a surrogate mother if that were their case. This media surge is destroying any privacy these children have. It is not up to the media or even us to know the private details of their lives and certainly not right for the public to be guessing who their bio daddy is or isn't.

I no more believe these tabloid bottom feeders nor the men who may project they may be the father of any of the children. I find them awfully insensitive jerks and cruel to throw that out in the media where the children can hear about it. They certainly aren't thinking of the children they are trying to promote may be theirs, that is for sure imo. These children have a father but their father is deceased now and they wrestle through their grief adjusting to that tremendous loss.

All these years they saw the horrible smut put out about their father and them and then now they just have to endure more smut and it is so inherently unfair. If any of these men are the sperm donor he has no rights by law to the child anyway so what is their point in making sure the media knows? IF these children wish to find out their bio father, when they become grown ,then they will pursue that and if they have no desire to seek anyone else.... because they know they will never have room in their heart but for the one daddy, they had all of their lives up to now, then it should be left up to them then.

Imo, these children have told the Judge where they want to live and it is with their father's mother. They will be just fine. They are outstanding children who are highly intelligent, loving, giving and caring.

I think these jerks need to shut up and the media should leave these children's lives alone but I doubt it will happen since their father was their favorite cash cow ever.

imo

[Oceanblueeyes]

People can go back and forth all they want about who they think are the bio parents, it really doesn't prove anything.

The only way to know for sure is with a DNA test.

The only salient issue is will the court ever order one.


I think the probate judge made a HUGE mistake in not appointing a lawyer for the children during the custody phase. I think it very well may come back and bite the judge in the butt.

IMO the children's interests were not independently protected in court. With so much money attached to them they certainly should have had a guardian ad litem who was a lawyer appointed to them by the court. Basically the children were given no other options besides Katherine.

A GAL would have been appointed if the custody had been contested. Since two parties weren't vying for custody of the children the Judge ruled according to law.

The two oldest children signed legal papers this is where they want to live.

[Ann]

The eyes are much different to me. I don't really see a resemblance except they are around the same age.

But let me ask you something please. How do any of us know what MJ told his children? Children are told at an age appropriate time when they become mature enough to understand. I think he talked with them about a lot of things but really it isn't our business what he told them just like it isn't if another children came from a sperm donor or even a surrogate mother if that were their case. This media surge is destroying any privacy these children have. It is not up to the media or even us to know the private details of their lives and certainly not right for the public to be guessing who their bio daddy is or isn't.

I no more believe these tabloid bottom feeders nor the men who may project they may be the father of any of the children. I find them awfully insensitive jerks and cruel to throw that out in the media where the children can hear about it. They certainly aren't thinking of the children they are trying to promote may be theirs, that is for sure imo. These children have a father but their father is deceased now and they wrestle through their grief adjusting to that tremendous loss.

All these years they saw the horrible smut put out about their father and them and then now they just have to endure more smut and it is so inherently unfair. If any of these men are the sperm donor he has no rights by law to the child anyway so what is their point in making sure the media knows? IF these children wish to find out their bio father when they become grown then they will pursue that and if they have no desire to seek anyone else because they know they will never have room in their heart but for the one daddy they had all of their lives up to now then it should be left up to them then.

Imo, these children have told the Judge where they want to live and it is with their father's mother. They will be just fine. They are outstanding children who are highly intelligent, loving, giving and caring.

I think these jerks need to shut up and the media should leave these children's lives alone but I doubt it will happen since their father was their favorite cash cow ever.

imo
I guess I'm looking at it from it being a legal issue than I am from an emotional viewpoint.

As far as I can tell the judge never privately interviewed the children. He just accepted their signatures on documents. What the children do or don't want and everything else about them is coming from the Jackson camp. And it does seem they are being isolated from everyone else that have been a part of their lives for a long time which I find a little troubling. The question becomes if they're not happy, how would anyone know it? IMO there should be some independent person they can confide in.

I do believe the whole thing is going to wind up in family court.

[Oceanblueeyes]

I guess I'm looking at it from it being a legal issue than I am from an emotional viewpoint.

As far as I can tell the judge never privately interviewed the children. He just accepted their signatures on documents. What the children do or don't want and everything else about them is coming from the Jackson camp. And it does seem they are being isolated from everyone else that have been a part of their lives for a long time which I find a little troubling. The question becomes if they're not happy, how would anyone know it? IMO there should be some independent person they can confide in.

I do believe the whole thing is going to wind up in family court.

Isolated? I thought Debbie Rowe was going to be seeing the children.

If it is anyone that the Jacksons believe supplied Michael with drugs while knowing he was an addict, I do imagine they will not allow them around the children.

Who is not allowed to see them?

I have not heard the Jackson family reveal what they are doing in specific detail.

Yes, it is a shame that they cannot get out in public too often and just stroll up the streets like other kids but that is the way it is when their father was the greatest entertainer in the world, where even normal shopping activities were non-existent. They went through that when he was alive if he dared even try to take them to a toy store. Many children who have famous parents live sheltered lives.........more than ever now due to the media snakes lurking in the bushes or the crazy stalkers.

I don't for one second believe they are isolated. They have many playmates there at Katherine's. I am sure they are loving being with their grandmother whom everyone has said is a kind and loving woman. I think they are being cared for with TLC.

I disagree. The Judge knows the law. He followed the law and the only way it will come back to court is if KJ should pass away and they are still young enough to need a guardian. I know grandmothers in their late 80s that are caring for their grandchildren and does a superb job.

imo

[Ann]

Isolated? I thought Debbie Rowe was going to be seeing the children.

If it is anyone that the Jacksons believe supplied Michael with drugs while knowing he was an addict, I do imagine they will not allow them around the children.

Who is not allowed to see them?

I have not heard the Jackson family reveal what they are doing in specific detail.

Yes, it is a shame that they cannot get out in public too often and just stroll up the streets like other kids but that is the way it is when their father was the greatest entertainer in the world, where even normal shopping activities were non-existent. They went through that when he was alive if he dared even try to take them to a toy store. Many children who have famous parents live sheltered lives.........more than ever now due to the media snakes lurking in the bushes or the crazy stalkers.

I don't for one second believe they are isolated. They have many playmates there at Katherine's. I am sure they are loving being with their grandmother whom everyone has said is a kind and loving woman. I think they are being cared for with TLC.

I disagree. The Judge knows the law. He followed the law and the only way it will come back to court is if KJ should pass away and they are still young enough to need a guardian. I know grandmothers in their late 80s that are caring for their grandchildren and does a superb job.

imo
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I still maintain that a custody contest is not the only reason that the court can decide to appoint a guardian ad litem as we saw in the Anna Nicole Smith hearing.

With the Jacksons' history of abuse both physical and emotional per Michael, I'm not as comfortable as you are in assuming the things that you seem to be.

Since the children are orphaned by their legal father, it may open the door to putative fathers having some say about custody and visitation especially if those putative fathers had an ongoing relationship with the children. I don't think it's necessarily an all or nothing situation.

As I said before, if Michael is not the bio dad, I don't think the children should be lied to about it and told that he is. I don't know what Michael told the kids about their mothers, but I wouldn't be surprised if the kids had questions about their situation.

[Sioux_Girl]

Jacko Guard Tells Why Lester Went Public
9:54pm UK, Sunday August 09, 2009

Pete Norman, Sky News Online

Michael Jackson's former British bodyguard has revealed his attempts to stop Mark Lester going public about the paternity of Paris Jackson.


Lester is godfather to both Jackson and Fiddes' children


Speaking exclusively to Sky News Online, Matt Fiddes also confirmed the former child actor, who is godfather to Michael Jackson's three children, has despaired at being shut out of their lives.

"Mark wanted to go public a couple of weeks ago about this but I talked him out of it," he said.

"We hoped a call would come in from the family but the phone never rang.

"I've seen Mark spiral down since Michael's death and become very depressed, but every effort Mark has made to stay in contact with the children has fallen on deaf ears."

Lester, 51, who appeared in Oliver! as a child, claimed in a Sunday newspaper that he donated sperm for Paris Jackson's conception prior to the singer's marriage to nurse Debbie Rowe.


He doesn't want to be their dad, he just wants those kids back in his life as a godparent.

Michael Jackson's bodyguard Matt Fiddes on Mark Lester
In addition to being godfather to the Jackson children, Lester is also godfather to Fiddes' three daughters.

He said both he and Jackson shared faith in their friend as a rock for their respective families.

Such was the closeness between Jackson and Lester that the singer ordered his bodyguard to contact him first if ever his life was in danger.

Fiddes told Sky News Online: "Michael told me on several occasions, 'If anything happens to me, if I am ill or kidnapped, you must call Mark Lester'."

Devon-based Fiddes, who runs a network of martial arts schools around the UK, also explained why the Jackson family may not have returned Lester's phone calls or emails.



Matt Fiddes talking on Sky News

"Mark is an incredibly loyal guy and this is the last thing he wanted to do, but I know the Jackson family and love them dearly and the way they have been treated since childhood means they automatically put the shutters up," Fiddes said.

"Mark didn't have any options left, he has tried everything.

"Mark is a great guy and is going through hell - he just wants to see the kids as a godparent and that's all he wants to do.

"He was so close to them as a family and changed their nappies as babies."



Mark Lester as Oliver

Security man Fiddes also believes the singer's mother Katherine, who now has custody of the singer's three children, is their ideal carer.

"Mrs Jackson came out to Devon last year and lived with us for six weeks and despite her age she has great support and is very capable," he said.

"Michael was extremely close to his mother and it is just convincing her that Mark is honest."

Fiddes added: "I spoke to Mark at 11pm last night for an hour and he is distraught - he doesn't want to be their dad, he just wants those kids back in his life as a godparent."

After Jackson's suspected drug-fuelled death on June 25 Fiddes previously revealed to Sky News how he and Uri Geller had tried in vain to keep the pop star away from illicit prescription drugs in previous years.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Michael-Jackson-Bodyguard-Matt-Fiddes-On-Oliver-Star-Mark-Lester-Paternity-Claim-For-Paris-Jackson/Article/200908215357239?lpos=World_News_Top_Stories_Header _0&lid=ARTICLE_15357239_Michael_Jackson_Bodyguard_Mat t_Fiddes_On_Oliver_Star_Mark_Lester_Paternity_Clai m_For_Paris_Jackson

I dont necessarily agree with the way hes gone about it but...maybe if they hadnt tried to stop him having contact with his god children then he wouldnt have gone to the media.

[Sioux_Girl]

Oh, I think they should just take a public vote and allow every Dick, Tom, & Harry that wants a little camera time pester the children. How do we know what the children have been told by MJ or by the family? We don't. MJ's wishes as to his children are being met. Anyone have a link where some sort of church ceremony was held naming the godfather,..where a promise was made to guide their spiritual growth? All we have is a few photos and other people's word. For what it is worth...MJ's children do not favor either man and have a darker complexion than the other guy's daughter. The eyes are a totally different shade of blue. I see the mother in them somewhat...but their complexion is very tan. Who cares, anyway. They are the children of MJ...and that is who made a will determining who would care for them in the event of his death. He did not set up any "parenting by committee" clause. I realize I may irritate some...and I really do not intend to. I am just posting my opinion...as we all are.


Actually it seems to be well known that Lester was the God father of Micheals children. When you say Micheals wishes regarding his children are being met how can you say that when his mother is keeping them away from the person HE named as there God parent? The children probably knew Lester better than they did the Jacksons and he must have thought something of Lester to appoint him over members of his family.

I think as adults...its a shame this is happening I really do. You would think that they would want the children..at this time to be able to reach out to people they know whether it be there family or friends

[Oceanblueeyes]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I still maintain that a custody contest is not the only reason that the court can decide to appoint a guardian ad litem as we saw in the Anna Nicole Smith hearing.

With the Jacksons' history of abuse both physical and emotional per Michael, I'm not as comfortable as you are in assuming the things that you seem to be.

Since the children are orphaned by their legal father, it may open the door to putative fathers having some say about custody and visitation especially if those putative fathers had an ongoing relationship with the children. I don't think it's necessarily an all or nothing situation.

As I said before, if Michael is not the bio dad, I don't think the children should be lied to about it and told that he is. I don't know what Michael told the kids about their mothers, but I wouldn't be surprised if the kids had questions about their situation.


Wasn't Larry and Virgie vying for custody of DL though? And I thought the GAL only represented her in determining where her mother would be buried.

That happened almost 40 years ago.

There has never been a complaint that I am aware of... that after Michael, Joe abused anyone.

I am very comfortable with them being there. Anyone that even knew of MJ knew he adored his mother and that never ever changed one second. Maybe MJ instead of being resentful toward her understood why Katherine may have been fearful to go up against Joe way back then.

They are not orphans. They have immediate family members, a vast amount and their legal grandmother has custody of them.

And when they become of legal age they can ask those questions or I think even if they wanted to know now KJ would tell them and imo she knows all about who the bios are.

imo

[Oceanblueeyes]

Well Lester's intentions may have been well placed but the way he carried it out I think it will be ill received by the Jackson family.

imo

[texanne]

And where is the document naming anyone as a godfather to be given access to the children. With all these clowns trying to cling to fame by making all these claims, I am so glad the family has kept the children away from them. Why in the world would they want all these publicity seekers and hanger ons to be around the children? These people are not needed. They are all the "mob" that was around Jackson when he was sinking in the despair of addiction. I hope the grandmother never lets any of them within a mile of HER GRANDCHILDREN. Everyone should back off and let the family be. Things are exactly as MJ wanted them to be. The children must have peace and quiet and time to run and play like normal children....with their loved ones and family around them. Outsiders and publicity seekers evidently are not welcome.

[Oceanblueeyes]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2019498/blanket_jacksons_mother_is_a_uk_doctor.html?cat=2

source close to the Jackson family has revealed to our investigators that Blanket Jackson's biological mother is in fact 32 year old Brit, Dr Susan Essien Etok.

The London based beauty, had a brief "secret" romance with Jackson in 2001, before agreeing to becoming his surrogate mother.

"They loved each other but their relationship was never going to work out. She wanted to focus on her academic career and shunned media attention. Michael wanted more children and Susan finally agreed to carry his child, " the family friend explains.

Contrary to previous reports, Susan was impregnated with sperm believed to be supplied by Jackson's Dermatologist, Dr Arnold Klein.

"Michael is not Blanket's biological father, he used a known sperm donor of anglo-saxon descent," confirms the family source.

A former Neverland employee, who wishes to remain anonymous said, "During the pregnancy, Susan was based in England and flew back to San Diego to give birth. After the birth, Susan remained friends with Jackson but Blanket and the other two children do not know her true identity."

It is believed that the 32 year old Medical Scientist was paid an undisclosed fortune by Jackson and signed an agreement to keep her identity under wraps.

[Sioux_Girl]

And where is the document naming anyone as a godfather to be given access to the children. With all these clowns trying to cling to fame by making all these claims, I am so glad the family has kept the children away from them. Why in the world would they want all these publicity seekers and hanger ons to be around the children? These people are not needed. They are all the "mob" that was around Jackson when he was sinking in the despair of addiction. I hope the grandmother never lets any of them within a mile of HER GRANDCHILDREN. Everyone should back off and let the family be. Things are exactly as MJ wanted them to be. The children must have peace and quiet and time to run and play like normal children....with their loved ones and family around them. Outsiders and publicity seekers evidently are not welcome.

In normal families to be honest..no documents are needed to say that god parents should be allowed near the children...it just happens.

Btw...grandmothers dont always do whats right for there family either. And..if publicity seekers arent welcome..maybe..Katherine should keep most of her own family away from the children...as some of them seem to have been HUGE publicity seekers since Michaels death.

Incidentally...maybe..if Michael wasnt forced to support that whole family and even there ex wives etc.. he wouldnt have been in such a financial mess and have such a need to do the concerts...so if your talk about the despair he was in...maybe its important to talk about what helped to cause his problems. Apparently Uri and others DID try and stop him taking drugs...but again...they wasnt the only ones who should have been trying to stop him.

[Ann]

In normal families to be honest..no documents are needed to say that god parents should be allowed near the children...it just happens.

Btw...grandmothers dont always do whats right for there family either. And..if publicity seekers arent welcome..maybe..Katherine should keep most of her own family away from the children...as some of them seem to have been HUGE publicity seekers since Michaels death.

Incidentally...maybe..if Michael wasnt forced to support that whole family and even there ex wives etc.. he wouldnt have been in such a financial mess and have such a need to do the concerts...so if your talk about the despair he was in...maybe its important to talk about what helped to cause his problems. Apparently Uri and others DID try and stop him taking drugs...but again...they wasnt the only ones who should have been trying to stop him.
I think it's a complicated situation especially if Michael is not the bio dad and that he only married Debbie Rowe to become the presumed father legally.

As we saw in the Anna Nicole case, Howard Stern was the legally presumed father because his name was on the birth certificate, he co-habitated with Anna, and Anna publicly said Stern was the father. Nevertheless Birkhead was able to file a paternity suit, get a DNA test and then got custody after his paternity was established.

As I understand it, the sticking point is the CA law says that paternity has to be challenged within two years of the birth. Some lawyers are now saying that because of some recent court decisions there are some circumstances that it can still be challenged after the 2 year limitation.

Right now the situation is that the presumptive grandmother has custody, and could be biological father(s) who have had an ongoing relationship with the children are being barred from seeing the children, and that may be even against what the children want.

I do get kind of turned off at the attitude of the Jacksons seeing the children as their property. It seems to be the same attitude they had toward Michael and now toward his estate.

[Tam5115]

I'm sorry, I think this is ridiculous. Michael is their father. Let's be done with these people who want to get involved purely for financial reasons. and really, that's why they are involved.

If not, why didn't these people say these things before Michael died?

Everyone wants their 15 minutes I guess.

[Firehead]

In the Anna Nicole Smith case, you had Larry trying for months for a DNA test to prove that Dannielynn was his. Stern was the legal father in the Bahamas, according to their laws not the USA laws. And they were NEVER married. It really isn't a good comparision. Meanwhile you have Rowe claiming she never wanted to be a mother but gave birth to two children because she loved MJ. Fine, she did that. They divorced and she received/is receiving 8.5 million dollars. We do not know if it was a divorce settlement or a pay off, so I will not argue that point. How many times in the past 10/12 years has she seen Prince and Paris? If you are a mother, you do not sit back and just wait to see your children. If you gave them up, then you don't enter back into their lives UNTIL the children seek you out.

These children have been with Michael since the day they were born. Their father is dead. None of the people who came out should have any say over anything in regards to the children. Lester should not have gone to the media ever. He should have called or send a letter stating why and what he would like. Seems to me that people did indeed contact the Jacksons after MJ died or how did Omar get to attend the funeral? Did Lester fly in to attend, was he invited? Since Katherine spent 6 weeks with him, you would think that she would have accepted a phone call from them.

[Sioux_Girl]

I'm sorry, I think this is ridiculous. Michael is their father. Let's be done with these people who want to get involved purely for financial reasons. and really, that's why they are involved.

If not, why didn't these people say these things before Michael died?

Everyone wants their 15 minutes I guess.

Mark Lester has not asked for money and has indeed said he doesnt want money. He had no reason to say anything before because he had a close relationship with his God Children while there father was alive - its only since his death the problems have occured which is why hes spoken out now i guess.

[Firehead]

Does the muslim religion have godparents?

http://www.pakistanlink.com/religion/2001/0608.html

Q 2. One of our Muslim brothers asked me, whether we are allowed to be “god-father” of a Christian child? Our Muslim brother told me, that one of his business colleagues asked him to be the godfather of his colleague’s daughter. He asked me whether it is allowed in Islam. I know that in our area being baptized is not because of religion, but rather a cultural custom. However I know that Allah has forbidden testifying falsehood, and we must not approve their polytheistic rituals. What shall I answer to this brother? (Mustafa Abdullah, Hungary)


A 2. Making someone a “Godfather” or “Godparent” is a Christian custom. As far as I know among Christians (especially in the West, although tradition differ from country to country and from denomination to denomination) a person is named as “Godfather” of the child at the time of child’s baptism. Among some Christians a godparent or godparents make profession of faith for the person being taken as godchild.” It is clear that a Muslim cannot participate in this custom and should not make a Christian profession of faith, neither for oneself nor for any one else.

However, if by "godfather" one means a guardian, or a supervisor of a child, then there is no prohibition for that. If there is a child from a non-Muslim family is in need for Muslim help or protection, then he/she should be provided this help as much as possible. Muslims can help any person of any religion who is in need. Allah says in the Qur’an: "If any among the polytheists seek your protection, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure…” (al-Tawbah 9:6) Muslims who have such non-Muslim children in their custody should take good care of them. Hopefully, these children will hear the word of Allah and accept the right path when they will grow up.

When we take any child or children into custody, we should keep in mind that they are not our biological children and when they will grow up they will not be mahram to other members of the family. The Muslim ladies and girls in the household will have to observe Hijab in the presence of the boys when they become adults and similarly the men in the household should observe the Islamic rules of non-mahram when these girls become mature.

I doubt if MJ would have followed this for any length of time. I can't see him allowing his daughter to be a part of this. So which, if any, religion did he believe in?

Mark Lester is Jewish.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0504492/bio
(A very interesting read) And it does state that MJ and Lester were the Godparent to each others children.

http://www.evergreenhealthcare.org/ehkwa/Templates/Pregnancy/Apps/ArticlePrint.aspx?POSTINGGUID={10AB803E-FBCD-4E88-8BBE-77D092FBE8FF}&FRAMELESS=true&NRNODEGUID=%7b10AB803E-FBCD-4E88-8BBE-77D092FBE8FF%7d
The sandek in the Jewish faith is akin to godfather, while the sandeket is the godmother figure.

So which faith are the chilldren to be reared in? Lester is asking to see the children and I think Katherine should allow that. Will he fly in to see them?

I think the one thing we have to understand is that Katherine's world was turned upside down in a split second. Here was woman who is 79 years old, living in the Encino compound with most of her family. I believe that MJ was supporting the majority of them at that home. In one split second she lost her son and her security and now has to deal with the mess that was left behind. I think if she wants to be informed about issues regarding Michaels estate, then she should sign that agreement. That doesn't mean that she can make any decisions regarding the estate though. As much as I think Michael loved his mother, I think he knew what would happened if he left his mother in charge of the estate. I also think, she has many things to be taken care of and it appears like she is doing this one thing at a time. Good for hre IF that is the case.

[Trailblazer]

I just feel really bad for the kids...all this stuff coming out about who may or may not be the bio dad and mom...

I would hope that Michael talked to his children and explained how they came into this world...and why they didn't have a mommy living with them..

It has to be devastating to lose a parent at such a young age, and then hear that he might not even be your bio dad...

[Ann]

I don't know if Mark Lester is Jewish. There have also been reports that he is Catholic. As far as I can tell, Michael never converted to Islam even though Jermaine tried to convert him. Michael seemed to embrace all religions. Michael also was not a practicing Jehovah's Witness, He observed birthdays and Christmas and Easter. Jehovah's Witnesses do not. They believe Jesus was the archangel Michael. They shun other faiths and prohibit blood transfusions.

[LiveLaughLuv]

I just feel really bad for the kids...all this stuff coming out about who may or may not be the bio dad and mom...

I would hope that Michael talked to his children and explained how they came into this world...and why they didn't have a mommy living with them..

It has to be devastating to lose a parent at such a young age, and then hear that he might not even be your bio dad...

Seems all the adults are forgetting about the children. I totally agree with you TB but seems the children and their feelings of what's going on is not taken into consideration...it seems to be about their 15 minutes of fame, the possibility of large sums of money, not the children or their feelings. :sad0119:

I too hope Michael explained to these children how they came to be so this is not so shocking for them. Bad enough to loose the only parent you've known then to find out your dad is not biologically yours..:z0tdntknw: I'd say beyond confusion....

[Alibar]

Sorry, I don't see any resemblance to the woman named.

I see no resemblance, either. The woman looks nothing like Blanket.

[Ann]

Seems all the adults are forgetting about the children. I totally agree with you TB but seems the children and their feelings of what's going on is not taken into consideration...it seems to be about their 15 minutes of fame, the possibility of large sums of money, not the children or their feelings. :sad0119:

I too hope Michael explained to these children how they came to be so this is not so shocking for them. Bad enough to loose the only parent you've known then to find out your dad is not biologically yours..:z0tdntknw: I'd say beyond confusion....

I think the psychologist is going to help the children to work through all this. The psychologist is likely to start by asking the kids about what Michael has told them and what they think and feel about it.

Again I do have concern that Katerine may be cutting the children off from people the children know and love and who love them.

Jehovah's Witnesses are a very separatist sect and discourage college education and any outside influences they consider worldly. I don't know how strictly Katherine is going to enforce all that with the kids.

[Ann]

TMZ is live streaming today's court hearing.

[Oceanblueeyes]

I see no resemblance, either. The woman looks nothing like Blanket.

I really don't think we can determine who the parents are simply by guessing the mother or father.

It is very difficult when the child is a bi-racial child. One of my friends has a granddaughter who is bi-racial. Her overall looks she doesn't favor her mom who is white or her dad who is black and about the same skin tone as Dr. Susan.

She does have his dark eyes but her complexion is more of a beautiful light olive and her hair is dark brown while her mom's hair is blonde. She does have a slender nose like her mom.

So what genetic traits will be picked up from the father's side of the family or what will be dominate in the mother's genetic makeup is just too hard to determine. Sometimes the children can favor a family member from past generations and not even look like the mom or dad.

It is like rolling the dice......no one knows what the child will look like until it is born.

I have two brothers and all three of us do not favor each other except we all have dark blue eyes.

I do think most likely that Klein is the bio dad of all three children and I am certainly not ruling out Susan as Blanket's mom.

It is sad though that it came out when she and MJ wanted it to remain private but there seems to always be someone ready to spill for money. Now I am sure the press will hound this poor women at every turn.



imo

[Oceanblueeyes]

I think the psychologist is going to help the children to work through all this. The psychologist is likely to start by asking the kids about what Michael has told them and what they think and feel about it.

Again I do have concern that Katerine may be cutting the children off from people the children know and love and who love them.

Jehovah's Witnesses are a very separatist sect and discourage college education and any outside influences they consider worldly. I don't know how strictly Katherine is going to enforce all that with the kids.

I thought that the psychologist are going to determine when it is the proper time for Debbie to come back in their lives to be known as their mom. I think that is wonderful of Debbie. She knows these kids don't really know her that well and it would be highly unfair to have to spend time with someone they may be uncomfortable with especially at this time when they are still grieving the loss of their father.

My respect for Debbie went way up when she considered the children's feelings about her.

Well surely since Katherine who has remained so dedicated to MJ and knew very well that these kids were very worldly as they traveled all over the world with their father, she will respect those teachings about worldly things.

imo

[Ann]

Here's the blow-by-blow inside the Michael Jackson estate hearing. KEEP REFRESHING for the latest.

It's go time. The judge is on the bench.

The lawyer for Columbia Pics is there.

Billy Jean Jackson and Claire Elisabeth Fields Cruise are in the front row.

[Ann]

Katherine Jackson's lawyer, Burt Levitch, just said Katherine is all in favor of the Columbia deal.

Howard Weitzman, lawyer for the estate, just said Katherine and the estate have some conflicts -- not in full agreement regarding financial issues.

[Ann]

One of Katherine Jackson's lawyers made an interesting comment -- law enforcement is looking at various policies and contracts, such as the AEG insurance policy. We don't know why.

So far the biggest thing is that the Jackson rehearsal-footage movie has been approved by the judge, so Columbia can get rolling, stat.

[Ann]

UPDATE: The judge has tentatively agreed to a protective order, which seems all the more interesting now that we know law enforcement is interested in certain documents, some of which are being held by AEG. The judge noted that law enforcement has the right to contact AEG or the estate directly for the info.