Are We In A Depression-NOT a Recession?? [Archive]

View Full Version : Are We In A Depression-NOT a Recession??

rockford2

08-03-2009, 09:28 PM

TeeOne

08-03-2009, 09:32 PM

I heard my co-workers opinion of this and I'd like anyone who cares to participate to offer your own views...

I have to say that in all of my 47 years and what I have lived through, THIS has me really worred. Jobs!! or lack of them.

I think things have never been this bad in MI. I've always taken pride in the fact that I could go out and get a job within a week, and a good job at that. Now I know I couldn't get the kind of job I'm use to. Matter of fact, I'd be lucky to get a job at WalMart (making less than I do on unemployment).

rockford2

08-03-2009, 09:36 PM

I think things have never been this bad in MI. I've always taken pride in the fact that I could go out and get a job within a week, and a good job at that. Now I know I couldn't get the kind of job I'm use to. Matter of fact, I'd be lucky to get a job at WalMart (making less than I do on unemployment).

that is exactly what I'm talking about! I, too, used to say that i could always get a job at Wal-Mart if I needed extra spending money but now I think that how you could do that and take that job away from somebody who needed it and NOT for just spending money but to make ends meet.

This truly is extremely scary. ALL of my co-workers feel we are in a 'modernized' depression. What i mean by that, is that times have changed of course, and so when you think of depression we don't think of whole families because everyone is scattered in today's world.

More thoughts to come..........have to help my son. BRB

Texas53

08-03-2009, 11:33 PM

I think we are in a bad recession. I remember back in the 1970's, when we had to wait in line for gas or get our tanks filled on days designated, prices were high and salaries weren't keeping up, it was bad then. However, comparing prices and cost of living then to now, wouldn't necessarily work, I guess. Plus back then people didn't live on credit as much as they do now...or beyond their means as much as people do now. Oh yes, jobs weren't being outsourced to other countries which puts so many Americans out of work that are qualified to do those same jobs. So if you look at the latter, you would think we are in a depression, I guess. JMHO

rockford2

08-04-2009, 06:46 AM

LiveLaughLuv

08-04-2009, 07:41 AM

Damn if I know the difference, seems the same to me...so I did some binging..

There is an old joke among economists that states:
A recession is when your neighbor loses his job.

A depression is when you lose your job.

The difference between the two terms is not very well understood for one simple reason: There is not a universally agreed upon definition. If you ask 100 different economists to define the terms recession and depression, you would get at least 100 different answers. I will try to summarize both terms and explain the differences between them in a way that almost all economists could agree with.

Recession: The Newspaper Definition
The standard newspaper definition of a recession is a decline in the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for two or more consecutive quarters.
This definition is unpopular with most economists for two main reasons. First, this definition does not take into consideration changes in other variables. For example this definition ignores any changes in the unemployment rate or consumer confidence. Second, by using quarterly data this definition makes it difficult to pinpoint when a recession begins or ends. This means that a recession that lasts ten months or less may go undetected.

Recession: The BCDC Definition
The Business Cycle Dating Committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) provides a better way to find out if there is a recession is taking place. This committee determines the amount of business activity in the economy by looking at things like employment, industrial production, real income and wholesale-retail sales. They define a recession as the time when business activity has reached its peak and starts to fall until the time when business activity bottoms out. When the business activity starts to rise again it is called an expansionary period. By this definition, the average recession lasts about a year.

more at the link:
http://economics.about.com/cs/businesscycles/a/depressions.htm

Texas53

08-04-2009, 07:50 AM

They should add another one:

Recession - Executives Definition

When they have raided their corporations for all they are worth, put all their workers out of jobs, and run the companies into the ground and there is no company left drain. Then they have the nerve to demand their outrageous bonuses for doing a good job of running the corporation into the ground. (that best and brightest talent must be paid!)

JMHO

LiveLaughLuv

08-04-2009, 07:55 AM

Right on Texas...that is the pork that lost it all...:shrug1:

There was a guy who worked for Merrill Lynch, he received a $25 million bonus he was only there 3 months, this right before they went under...why?

Trailblazer

08-04-2009, 08:06 AM

LiveLaughLuv

08-04-2009, 08:13 AM

Merrill Lynch is still in business..they didn't go under...they got bought out by BOA

That bonus was received from TARP funds..for some reason I can't pull up the article..but...

Ex Merrill Lynch exec pays 37 million for NYC apartment | politikly ...Former Merrill Lynch executive Peter Kraus received a $25 million dollar payout from TARP funds after ... after the sale of Merrill to Bank of America triggered a $25 million bonus ...

politikly.com/2008/12/30/ex-merrill-lynch-exec-pays-37-million-for-nyc-apartment/#comment... · Cached

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/30/85952/148/913/678437

http://www.bing.com/search?q=peter+kraus+received+a+25+million+dollar+ bonus+&src=IE-SearchBox&Form=IE8SRC

Texas53

08-04-2009, 08:23 AM

Merrill Lynch is still in business..they didn't go under...they got bought out by BOA

They went under before BOA took over. Thats why there is no Merrill Lynch anymore. That company was over 100 years old and it took the best talent money could buy to take it under. I bet the man who started that company is spinning in his grave now. JMHO

Trailblazer

08-04-2009, 08:54 AM

They went under before BOA took over. Thats why there is no Merrill Lynch anymore. That company was over 100 years old and it took the best talent money could buy to take it under. I bet the man who started that company is spinning in his grave now. JMHO

Not true...I have Merrill Lynch handling all my investments..

Trailblazer

08-04-2009, 08:55 AM

That bonus was received from TARP funds..for some reason I can't pull up the article..but...

Ex Merrill Lynch exec pays 37 million for NYC apartment | politikly ...Former Merrill Lynch executive Peter Kraus received a $25 million dollar payout from TARP funds after ... after the sale of Merrill to Bank of America triggered a $25 million bonus ...

politikly.com/2008/12/30/ex-merrill-lynch-exec-pays-37-million-for-nyc-apartment/#comment... · Cached

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/30/85952/148/913/678437

http://www.bing.com/search?q=peter+kraus+received+a+25+million+dollar+ bonus+&src=IE-SearchBox&Form=IE8SRC

LLL I remember that...just saying Merrill Lynch is still in business

Texas53

08-04-2009, 09:06 AM

LLL I remember that...just saying Merrill Lynch is still in business

Its in business, but it was sinking like the Titanic. Thats why BOA took it over and tarp money was needed.

In my opinion, my money (what I have left) is better off under my mattress. :frown:

LiveLaughLuv

08-04-2009, 09:09 AM

Its in business, but it was sinking like the Titanic. Thats why BOA took it over and tarp money was needed.

In my opinion, my money (what I have left) is better off under my mattress. :frown:

That's the truth..banks are going belly up too...sad state of affairs..

This bonus was received from TARP money. Those who received bonuses as Kraus did was asked to give it back...I bet no one did...

Texas53

08-04-2009, 09:13 AM

Thats why I'm for capping CEO/corporate officers perks by law. How can you justify bonuses when your company is going down the toilet and people are losing their jobs?
Thats outrageous and tells the common man that we don't mean a rats azz when it comes to working and trying to do a good job. JMHO

SavannahStar

08-04-2009, 09:36 AM

Not true...I have Merrill Lynch handling all my investments..

Thanks for that! They handle my Dad's investments also....we get mail from them all the time! Merrill Lynch is alive and well.

Alibar

08-04-2009, 09:52 AM

Beyond capping top echolon bonuses and such, I think there should be a limit on who can have a credit card.

Grande

08-04-2009, 11:11 AM

Beyond capping top echolon bonuses and such, I think there should be a limit on who can have a credit card.

I absolutely agree.

TeeOne

08-04-2009, 11:27 AM

Beyond capping top echolon bonuses and such, I think there should be a limit on who can have a credit card.

I think it is harder to get credit nowadays. And, I thought that most people know the danger of credit cards.
I do know that some ppl are running their cards up as far as they can and then filing backruptcy. That is so wrong and should be stopped.
The other thing that has been happening here is that people are buying biggger houses, since the market is so bad and then letting their old house go into foreclosure.

SavannahStar

08-04-2009, 01:50 PM

I think it is harder to get credit nowadays. And, I thought that most people know the danger of credit cards.
I do know that some ppl are running their cards up as far as they can and then filing backruptcy. That is so wrong and should be stopped.
The other thing that has been happening here is that people are buying biggger houses, since the market is so bad and then letting their old house go into foreclosure.

The new bankruptcy act passed several years ago has safeguards in place against people running up cards and then filing bankruptcy. That could be done many years ago, but no longer. I don't recall off the top of my head, but there is a dollar limit to what can be charged on credit, for a certain amount of time prior to filing bankruptcy. This is very strictly enforced.

annalyzer

08-04-2009, 02:01 PM

What pees me off is the credit card companies raising the APR's or whatever before the deadline that will put a big halt to that. I had a credit card for years through Washington Mutual where I also had a loan to purchase my home. As soon as Chase took over WAMU they raised my APR and put some other restrictions on my account. I say screw you.

annalyzer

08-04-2009, 02:05 PM

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS307US307&as_q=chase&as_epq=&as_oq=%22took+over%22&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

TeeOne

08-04-2009, 02:14 PM

The new bankruptcy act passed several years ago has safeguards in place against people running up cards and then filing bankruptcy. That could be done many years ago, but no longer. I don't recall off the top of my head, but there is a dollar limit to what can be charged on credit, for a certain amount of time prior to filing bankruptcy. This is very strictly enforced.

I'm very glad to hear this. My son's friend was boasting to him that he and his wife (who both have good jobs) are doing this. He even went as far to ask my son if he wanted anything from Home Depot.
They also just bought a $200,000 somthing house and walked out of their smaller one.
This guy said that his attorney told him he could get away with all this nonesense. I was :45024:

SavannahStar

08-04-2009, 02:31 PM

I'm very glad to hear this. My son's friend was boasting to him that he and his wife (who both have good jobs) are doing this. He even went as far to ask my son if he wanted anything from Home Depot.
They also just bought a $200,000 somthing house and walked out of their smaller one.
This guy said that his attorney told him he could get away with all this nonesense. I was :45024:

He can't get away with this. He really can't. And for his attorney to tell him that, wow! Talk about unethical.

Many years ago friends of mine filed bankruptcy and they did charge up a storm right before they did it. Back then it could be done. But no longer.

I know this for fact.

http://www.christianet.com/bankruptcy/chapter7bankruptcy.htm

In order to file for chapter 7 bankruptcy, several forms and a petition must be filled out in order to begin the process of court approval. Lots of information is required in order to proceed with the petition such as present income, expenditures over the last two years, property bought and sold, assets that will be claimed by the applicant after the petition is filed and any property that may have been given as a gift in the past two years. A thorough assessment of personal assets, liabilities and earnings are very important to the court especially since the new laws have gone into effect. No longer can a person run up credit on luxury items within the previous 60 days before the petition is filed without paying for the items.

Many lawmakers have seen an abusive trend of prior laws that allowed people to indiscriminately run up credit cards, buy cars, purchase plane tickets, take luxury vacations and receive cash advances just before filing for chapter 7 bankruptcy. This has left many creditors holding the bag for products that will never be paid for by individuals who calculated their times of purchase to coincide with court mandated restrictions of credit collections. Other abuses have been common for years that range from poorly managed finances and unreasonable investments that may not have had to occur with proper money management. While many people legitimately qualify for bankruptcies as a result of difficulties beyond their control, the misuse of the system spurred changes to chapter 7 bankruptcy laws that has made it harder for those who attempt to manipulate the system for their own purposes.

TeeOne

08-04-2009, 02:54 PM

I can't wait to share this with my son. He wasn't liking what his friend is doing either.

rockford2

08-04-2009, 09:35 PM

I was in law classes right before they changed the bankruptcy laws. At first, before the attorneys found loopholes, it was very difficult to file Chapter 13. Now I see commercials all the time while watching the news about how so and so law office states that they know how to get around the laws and to come in and they will handle everything for you.

I don't know how many times my own father has filed in his lifetime and yet, he was always able to lease a new car! :z0tdntknw: