The Death Penalty - Something to Think About

[SavannahStar]

Should death penalty die?
By Susan Taylor Martin, Times Senior Correspondent

Published Thursday, November 12, 2009

Does it seem like not so long ago that John Allen Muhammad — the D.C. Sniper — was terrorizing residents of the nation's capital? And does it seem as if the state of Virginia executed him with unusual speed — just six years from his sentencing to his death?

If it seems that way to you, you're not alone.

Although the U.S. Supreme Court refused to stay Muhammad's execution last week, three justices noted the relative haste with which he met his state-ordered end.

"This case highlights once again the perversity of executing inmates before their appeals process has been fully concluded,'' Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for himself, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor.

Nor was Muhammad's case unique. Of the 10 other inmates recently put to death in Virginia, the average length of time between sentence and execution was 6 ½ years.

Contrast that to Florida, where the last man executed, John Marek, sat on death row for nearly a quarter of a century. And where another inmate, triple murderer Gary Alvord, has been awaiting execution since 1974 — the year President Richard Nixon resigned.

The huge disparity in the time it takes states to execute murderers stems from a number of factors. But at the heart of the issue is the death penalty itself and whether it too should be put to an end.

As Florida and other states struggle with shrinking budgets, it becomes increasingly hard to justify sending people to death row and keeping them there for years when even many in law enforcement say there are cheaper, more effective deterrents to crime. Whether execution comes quickly — as in Virginia — or is delayed for decades — as is often the case in Florida — capital punishment has little appreciable effect on murder rates, experts note.

"Is it worth pursuing death in a case that may cost the state $2 million more than pursuing life in prison?'' asks Scott Sundby, an expert on capital punishment at Virginia's Washington and Lee School of Law. "Two million dollars is a lot of teachers, a lot of firefighters, a lot of police officers. When you start thinking about it that way, it becomes much harder to make those tradeoffs.''

• • •

Although seven of his 13 victims were in Maryland, Muhammad wound up before a sentencing judge in Virginia, a state known for its comparatively swift dispatch of death row inmates.

One of the main reasons is that Virginia, unlike most states, sets execution dates before all appeals are completed.

"It always speeds up the process so the defense attorneys have to file before the actual appeals deadline,'' says Beth Panilaitis, executive director of Virginians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty.

That's what happened in Muhammad's case. The Supreme Court was to hear his petition Nov. 24, but the state scheduled the execution for Nov. 10, rushing the justices' deliberation on a matter "that demands the most careful attention,'' as Stevens complained.

Another factor: Though Virginia has executed more people than any other state except Texas since 1976, it has imposed relatively few death sentences in recent years and has a small death row population — 22 today. So there is not a huge backlog of cases requiring judicial review as there is in Florida, where 387 are awaiting execution, or California, with 678 on death row.

"A capital case is the neurosurgery of the legal system,'' Sundby says. "The law is very complicated, the trials are very complicated, and as a result it shouldn't be surprising that it takes a while to have a full and fair hearing if someone's constitutional rights have been satisfied.

"By their very nature these cases are going to take a long time, and when you put them in states like Florida or California, where you already have 300, 400, 500 cases in the queue, it's certainly a recipe for a very long time between sentencing and actual execution.''

Sundby and other experts also note that Virginia's appeals courts are more conservative than those in Florida and California and thus more likely to affirm death sentences. That's another reason cases move more quickly through the system.

"In both Virginia and Texas, the courts simply are not players, they are not in the game,'' says Stephen Hanlon, a Washington attorney who has handled capital cases. "There's no significant review in either of these states whereas the courts are a player in Florida and do take review much more seriously than in other states and for good reason.''

Since 1973, at least 138 people nationwide — including a retarded Virginia man — have been exonerated and freed from death row. The average time between sentencing and exoneration was 9.8 years — three years longer than the average Virginia inmate now stays on death row before being executed.

"It absolutely opens the door to mistakes being missed,'' says Panilaitis of the Virginians for death penalty alternatives. And mistakes often occur: A landmark study of all capital cases between 1976 and 1996 found errors in 67 percent of them.

Says Hanlon: "If you get something wrong 67 percent of the time, something's wrong and I think responsible courts know that.''

It's costly to kill

All this would be moot if Virginia, Florida, Texas and California did what 15 states already have done — outlaw capital punishment. Several other states seriously considered it this year, including Connecticut, whose legislature passed an abolition bill only to have it effectively vetoed by a tough-on-crime governor.

The reasons the death penalty is falling out of favor? Cost and effectiveness.

"Around the country, death sentences have declined 60 percent since 2000 and executions have declined almost as much,'' according to a new report by the nonpartisan Death Penalty Information Center. "Yet maintaining a system with 3,300 people on death row and supporting new prosecutions for death sentences that likely will never be carried out is becoming increasingly expensive and harder to justify.''

Case in point: New York and New Jersey spent more than $100 million on a system that produced no executions. Both recently abandoned the practice.

In Florida, the cost of prosecution, defense, appeals and heightened security in capital cases is an estimated $51 million a year greater than what it would be to punish first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions carried out in Florida from 1976 to 2000, that comes to about $24 million per execution.

And many capital cases never result in executions because defendants die — as did John Couey, who murdered 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford — or because sentences are reversed, laws are overturned or governors grant clemency.

"This often means that a life sentence is the end result, but only after a very expensive death penalty process,'' the report notes.

In a poll released with the report, U.S. police chiefs listed the death penalty last among their priorities for reducing violent crime. Nearly 60 percent said it had little deterrent value because perpetrators rarely think about the consequences of their acts.

Instead, increasing the number of police officers, reducing drug abuse, and creating more jobs all ranked far higher than capital punishment in preventing crime, the chiefs agreed. Or as former Seattle police Chief Norm Stamper succinctly put it:

"The death penalty is inefficient and extravagantly expensive.''

Susan Taylor Martin can be contacted at susan@sptimes.com

http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/executions-are-expensive-and-an-ineffective-deterrent-should-the-death/1051396

[Roamer]

In most cases, I am totally pro-DP. There are a very few I think should have gotten life.

However, if the crime is intentional, heinous, or just plain evil, the sooner the better. Stop wasting time on appeals and get it done.

[packy]

I think they should wait till all the appeals are exhausted at least. Although I've been against the DP mainly because of more and more cases of finding those that have been wrongfully convicted, lately I've leaned a little bit toward the DP.

[downunder]

My view will probably be unpopular on this forum but I'm going to put it out there anyway.

The DP is wrong, no matter which way you look at it. I too despise criminals, and would like to rid our society of them, especially violent ones. But I also believe, overwhelmingly, that our Governments should NEVER have the power to legally murder its citizens.

[LiveLaughLuv]

I feel like Roamer. If it's heinous, intentional, purely evil, why waste time?

I think the appeals process also needs to be scaled down. I think Virginia does it right 6.5 years and there done.

We have also come a long way since hanging on the gallows was carried out. The electric chair abolished and the gas chamber hasn't been used and now they are gently put to sleep. Much gentler and kinder than what was feted out to some of the victims.

I also feel sometimes LWOP is an option but that only goes for first time arrests, IMO, not career criminals for they can't be rehabilitated..

[texanne]

I am for the death penalty. There was a time when I was younger that I was against it. I don't want to feed and house evil demons (I refuse to call them humans). I just want them gone....forever. Sometimes you cannot believe all the organizations that come up with stories of innocent people being executed (while I am aware it has happened). I just remember years ago when the Hollywood types joined in with a big public push about a murderer in Houston, and how he was railroaded. It was all bunk. Yes, it was dark and rainy when he commited his murder. HOWEVER, he was under a street light for over a minute while the witness (who happened to be waiting in a car) looked at him. It was also said over and over that the witness was probably wrong because he was a black man. It was never included in their self serving report that the witness was also black and had good vision. Then there was the man who had been held by the murderer a day or so later. He was subjected to a very horrific beating while being held hostage. During that time, the murderer actually bragged about the murder. None of this made the very widely shown reports by the people who convinced many, many people that an innocent man was being executed. Call me cynical....and call me sick of innocents (especially little children) being brutally abused, raped, & murdered by the demons walking this earth. Sorry if this sounds harsh.......I have just seen too much murder and mayhem to feel all mamby pamby about the death penalty. The only time I come down against the DP is in the case of someone under 18. The young just do not have the tools sometimes to make the same decisions an older, more experienced person does.

[Alibar]

My view will probably be unpopular on this forum but I'm going to put it out there anyway.

The DP is wrong, no matter which way you look at it. I too despise criminals, and would like to rid our society of them, especially violent ones. But I also believe, overwhelmingly, that our Governments should NEVER have the power to legally murder its citizens.

Downunder, welcome to HFTM. I'm sure there are many here who share your opinion. For me, I'm for the death penalty and the sooner the better in most cases. If it doesn't deter others from risking it, no matter. There are some murderers I want off this earth, to not get to continue living, even in prison.

When I was much younger and greener and had very liberal beliefs, (before moving to the more reasonable middle of the road with slightly liberal leanings), I still believed in the dp..... But, I never object to others expressing their opinion and have no interest in trying to change their mind.

[PatC]

I'm going to have to jump in here. I totally agree with Texanne and Alibar. I'm very pro-DP. As for the argument that the DP is more expensive than LWOP.... I find that argument specious and based on an ineffective DP system that becomes mired in inefficient appeals processes and, perhaps, even the selection criterion for pursuing the DP.

I'm appalled at the disparity among the states in the implementation of the DP. I think the states should be put on the hot seat... why should it take even 5 years to exhaust an appeals process? Either the trial was properly conducted or it wasn't. Certainly the victims weren't given an additional 5 -30 years to decide if the crime would be perpetrated, were they?

My preferences would be:

1. Narrow the criteria for the cases for which the DP can be sought. Take the politics out of it, e.g., it's a re-election year for the DA so he needs to appear "tough on crime" or the victim is a beautiful, young school teacher rather than a middle aged gang banger.

2. Evidence must be irrefutable, e.g., DNA, or a confession obtained... and here's were I depart completely from the norm.... or the accused must be a proven habitual felon.

3. A set number of appeals established and a strict timeline for each.

The argument that DP cases cost more than LWOP would disappear. Also, I think the addition of "habitual felon" to the list of DP cases would relieve the overcrowding in the prison system. Why should we, the public, fork over our tax dollars to house and feed a selection of people who have repeatedly proven that they are incapable of functioning in society? Yes, my "plan" would give a whole new meaning to the "Three Strikes You're Out" rule.

If that would be "legally murdering" our citizens, so be it. It doesn't bother me nearly as much as having to euthanize a dog because he's become overly aggressive.

[Alibar]

Am so glad you jumped in, Pat! Your idea about 3 strikes and the incapable of functioning in society felon is gone is GREAT. I totally agree.

[Roamer]

Whatever happened to the Three Strikes program?

Doesn't sound to me like many states are using it.

[Alibar]

Whatever happened to the Three Strikes program?

Doesn't sound to me like many states are using it.

Our leftist judges want to keep giving hardened felons another chance to go kill another innocent person.

[packy]

Whatever happened to the Three Strikes program?

Doesn't sound to me like many states are using it.





A lot of the three strikes laws may use violent crimes at firsst but when someone gets to the third strike any felony could result in a stiff sentence even if it would be non-violent, and that is very scary to me.

[SaberGal]

I used to support the death penalty very strongly and while I still consider myself a proponent of the death penalty, I have become increasingly alarmed over the number of inmates who were either on death row or serving very long sentences only to be exonerated and freed years later. Because of this, my position on the DP is that anyone sitting on death row, where DNA in the case is available for testing but has not yet been tested, should be tested on the State's dime before the sentence is carried out.

JMHO

[SaberGal]

A lot of the three strikes laws may use violent crimes at firsst but when someone gets to the third strike any felony could result in a stiff sentence even if it would be non-violent, and that is very scary to me.

Ditto.

[Tracian]

A lot of the three strikes laws may use violent crimes at firsst but when someone gets to the third strike any felony could result in a stiff sentence even if it would be non-violent, and that is very scary to me.


I am a case by case pro DP.

As far as the three strikes law, IMO it is two strikes too many.

If some sicko murders, rapes, pistol whips to near death, gets another chance, does it again....gets another chance...I don't care if they put him/her in prison forever for spitting on the sidewalk, I have no problem with that.

Again, each case should be judged by it's own merit, just like in DP cases...blanket sentancing does not work.

[SaberGal]

I am a case by case pro DP.

As far as the three strikes law, IMO it is two strikes too many.

If some sicko murders, rapes, pistol whips to near death, gets another chance, does it again....gets another chance...I don't care if they put him/her in prison forever for spitting on the sidewalk, I have no problem with that.

Again, each case should be judged by it's own merit, just like in DP cases...blanket sentancing does not work.

Absolutely!

[Roamer]

Then they should make DNA testing a part of the one appeal process. I have no problem with that at all.

[LiveLaughLuv]

I am a case by case pro DP.

As far as the three strikes law, IMO it is two strikes too many.

If some sicko murders, rapes, pistol whips to near death, gets another chance, does it again....gets another chance...I don't care if they put him/her in prison forever for spitting on the sidewalk, I have no problem with that.

Again, each case should be judged by it's own merit, just like in DP cases...blanket sentancing does not work.

Absolutely!

Then they should make DNA testing a part of the one appeal process. I have no problem with that at all.

ITA, with you all...especially Tracian with a case by case basis..

I only want one thing and it's immediate death for the death of a child, not an accidental one, but one that my be deemed premeditated. No child should have to be raped/tortured and if the end result would be murder, then by all means the perp should meet the same fate (Nixmary's Law touches that). Eyewitness accounts cannot be deemed as the credible nail in the coffin, they should support those accounts with a DNA test, to put the perp right at the act, no going back..

When you think about the DP, it is much kinder than how some victims may have died. It's come a long way from the hanging on the gallows or being brought before a firing squad, which the Military still uses as their sentence to the DP. The are now gently put to sleep, never to awake...the electric chair is also a thing of the past for no one chooses that method when they have a choice.

Either way, the victims are the ones who bear the brunt of the crime/abuse. These criminals get three hots and a cot, all their bills paid by the fine state in which they are held.

A person should not be a liability of their fine state. Be a productive member of society, abide by the laws set forth and you don't have to ever worry about being put to death for a murder you've commited, or a rape of a child..JMHO :madranting94dp:

[Roamer]

How about giving (or selling) your child to perverts???

That mother in little Shaniya's case should go down now!!!

[Tracian]

How about giving (or selling) your child to perverts???

That mother in little Shaniya's case should go down now!!!


She is guilty of murder, as far as I am concerned.

[LiveLaughLuv]

How about giving (or selling) your child to perverts???

That mother in little Shaniya's case should go down now!!!

She is guilty of murder, as far as I am concerned.

I agree with you both...I posted how I felt about HER on Shaniya's thread. I do hope NC has the DP, for they both deserve nothing less...:madranting94dp:

:sad0119:

[SaberGal]

Then they should make DNA testing a part of the one appeal process. I have no problem with that at all.

My problem with the appellate process is that very rarely do the judges consider the guilt or innocence of the convicted but rather look at whether, in their eyes and in the eyes of the law, the trial was fair and/or if errors occurred in trial, whether they serious enough to have affected the outcome/verdict.

In the majority of cases where one has been exonerated, they had already had several appeals denied, and only when the defense was able to get outside groups involved (like the Innocence Project) to fund the DNA testing, were their clients able to finally receive some justice. And even with DNA evidence clearing them, it is an uphill battle post-conviction to at least even get a new trial! That is what infuriates me the most...here's an example of that:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20060659,00.html

From the link:

In 2004 the first round of testing showed that Clarence's DNA did not match newly discovered DNA samples at the crime scene. Elkins and Godsey assumed that would exonerate Clarence. But a judge refused to order a new trial, saying the evidence wasn't sufficient to change a jury's decision.

JMHO

[Antsmomma]

I hate the death penalty-but not because I am against it. I just don't think there is any good answer. There was a time when I was just against it. period. I hated the thought of killing someone. But then as I got a little older and learned more about what goes in the world it wasn't easy to always say I was against it. I feel like giving that power to any human beings, to essentially be able to decide who lives and who dies, that is a scary thing. (I recently watched an episode of "Community" and they actually touched on a pretty good topic IMO, in a comedic way...is man instinctually good or evil?) I just feel like there are so many things that could go wrong when making that decision. I am under no impression that a majority of the criminals sentenced to death are guilty. That said, do I shed a tear when someone is put to death for murdering a child? Heck no. As a parent I can honestly say that if someone caused significant harm to my son I wouldn't give putting a bullet through their head a second thought. So in the end I guess that I am completely undecided. You will not catch me in line to watch someone put to death, but you sure as heck would not find me at a protest against it either.

[Febbie]

She is guilty of murder, as far as I am concerned.

I second that, she deserves what she did to the baby!! That child was innocent, and had ever right to live!!!

[Jute]

A lot of the three strikes laws may use violent crimes at firsst but when someone gets to the third strike any felony could result in a stiff sentence even if it would be non-violent, and that is very scary to me.

I am a case by case pro DP.

As far as the three strikes law, IMO it is two strikes too many.

If some sicko murders, rapes, pistol whips to near death, gets another chance, does it again....gets another chance...I don't care if they put him/her in prison forever for spitting on the sidewalk, I have no problem with that.

Again, each case should be judged by it's own merit, just like in DP cases...blanket sentancing does not work.

Then they should make DNA testing a part of the one appeal process. I have no problem with that at all.

ITA, with you all...especially Tracian with a case by case basis..

I only want one thing and it's immediate death for the death of a child, not an accidental one, but one that my be deemed premeditated. No child should have to be raped/tortured and if the end result would be murder, then by all means the perp should meet the same fate (Nixmary's Law touches that). Eyewitness accounts cannot be deemed as the credible nail in the coffin, they should support those accounts with a DNA test, to put the perp right at the act, no going back..

When you think about the DP, it is much kinder than how some victims may have died. It's come a long way from the hanging on the gallows or being brought before a firing squad, which the Military still uses as their sentence to the DP. The are now gently put to sleep, never to awake...the electric chair is also a thing of the past for no one chooses that method when they have a choice.

Either way, the victims are the ones who bear the brunt of the crime/abuse. These criminals get three hots and a cot, all their bills paid by the fine state in which they are held.

A person should not be a liability of their fine state. Be a productive member of society, abide by the laws set forth and you don't have to ever worry about being put to death for a murder you've commited, or a rape of a child..JMHO :madranting94dp:

<respectfully snipped>

That said, do I shed a tear when someone is put to death for murdering a child? Heck no. As a parent I can honestly say that if someone caused significant harm to my son I wouldn't give putting a bullet through their head a second thought. So in the end I guess that I am completely undecided. You will not catch me in line to watch someone put to death, but you sure as heck would not find me at a protest against it either.

You have all made some excellent points; I've copied only a few because, for one thing, they represent my beliefs as well as my confusion.

I have never come to terms with my feelings about the DP; I grew up in a state that did not have it and didn't give it any deep thought until I was an adult. I don't believe that the DP is a deterrent to others; evil is evil and the knowledge of what might happen just doesn't matter.

First and foremost, I do not believe that a person who violates a child in any way - be itf sexual assault or murder - should ever see the light of day again. The problem with the DP is that few are actually carried out and the guilty person is allowed to live in the relative safety of death row.

Because of that, I have a few thoughts:
1. Three strikes and you're out laws need to be re-evaluated; standards set for what constitutes a "serious" criminal act, and sentence enhancements for those crimes that do not meet that standard. Continued criminal behavior after the "second chance" needs to result in LWOP. There is a point where a person is such a risk to the community that they need to go away for life.
2. Mandatory, immediate DNA testing in all cases involving another person; the results should be checked by at least 2 separate agencies to ensure that an appeal on the basis of error in testing will not be an option.
3. Truth-in-sentencing needs to be exactly that - no parole for violent offenders under any circumstances.
4. ALL serious offenders - including those convicted of crimes against children - should be put into the general population, not given the protection that they did not give their victims. They will be tried by a true jury of their peers - and what happens happens.
5. States need to come to some type of consensus so that punishment is not so extremely different from state to state.
6. In the case where the DP is imposed, one appeal. The idea of allowing appeals to drag on for decades is absurd - and gives the convicted person a sense of security that is often correct.

Like Antsmomma, even though I'm not clear about my feelings, I would never shed a tear or give a second thought to someone who raped or murdered a child being put to death. Our world has gone insane; our most precious gifts - children - are being viewed as easy prey and completely disposable.

JMO

[Boscorelli]

I have always been a PRO DEATH PENALTY advocate. Charles Manson,and his women co-defendants; should have been executed when Calif. reinstated the DP.
THe more heinous,brutal the murder along with the victim's suffering and age;should also be a factor of AGGRAVATION.
Yes I am all for DNA testing;now when people are indicted,their dna is submitted= blood urine,saliva;and it remains in a database.
Each murder is not a DP case;in most cases 25 to life or LWOP is a just and fair sentence. JMHO
5 years after the conviction,the case should be reviewed and if there is no new evidence to vindicate innocence;the execution should be carried out LIVE on tv. The on going appeals processes,revictimizes the family of the victim,over and over again;while the defendant's rights are 'protected under the law' JMHO:groan: Example John Allen Muhammed
Casey Anthony will more than likely be convicted of the brutal heinous murder of Caylee Marie,2y/o This case screams and begs for the DP.:45024:
:mornincoffee:Boscorelli

[downunder]

The taking of a human life is wrong, no matter who does it.

Do you trust the Courts? Do you think they get it right 100% of the time? Do you believe that LE would NEVER plant/manufacture evidence? Do you believe that a rich man is just as likely to be on death row as a poor one?

As long as there are questions over these issues, the DP should never be contemplated, IMO.

[Boscorelli]

Good Morning Downunder
Premeditative murder,felony murder are all the criteria for the DEATH PENALTY. The latest to die was John Allen Muhammed =DC Sniper. He simply took out his revenege on INNOCENT PEOPLE. John Malove his co-defendant should also be executed JMHO;he carried out the brutal crimes;just because he was 17,is no excuse.
I do trust the courts and have disagreed with verdicts over the course of time.
Example: Andrea Yates premeditatied the murders of her 5 children ages 6 months to 7 years. In her first trial she was found GUILTY/LWOP The Appeals Court granted her a new trial NOT GUILTY by reason of insanity. THe facts of the case didn't change;only the slick smooth fast talking defense attorney.
So Yates is in a mental institution recieveing her daily cocktail of psyco-trofic drugs. Her brain is mush. JMHO but her attorney did her more harm than good.
If she were in Max security facility,LWOP,Yates might have been able to understand the horror of her atrocious act against her children and expierence remorse/repentence.
Scott Peterson is on Death Row and he came from a middle/upper middle class family. He murdered his 8month pregnant wife Laci,and their unborn son,Connor:1222423:. Reason = simple he wanted to be a playboy,without obligations.
It can take 10 15 years before an execution is carried out;and thankfully some inmates die before their execution.Example John Couy murdered 8y/o Jessica L.He was on Florida's DR,died earlier this year,in a hospital ward.
Boscorelli

[SaberGal]

The taking of a human life is wrong, no matter who does it.

Do you trust the Courts? Do you think they get it right 100% of the time? Do you believe that LE would NEVER plant/manufacture evidence? Do you believe that a rich man is just as likely to be on death row as a poor one?

As long as there are questions over these issues, the DP should never be contemplated, IMO.

These are precisely my concerns, downunder. Well said.

[Buffalogirl]

well i feel that it could go either way on the death penalty.... If the jails werent so easy theses days as far as tv and special work out time ect.....and they actually made it a punishment then i wouldnt want the dealth penalty ,but since they make it like a vacation theses days I wish the dealth penalty was more painful for them or whatever they did to others should be done onto them !

[PatC]

I feel about the death penalty the same way I feel about censorship. I'm 100% in favor of censoring pornographic material... as long as I get to be the censor. Not because I have any desire to review salacious material but because I have disagreed with what the courts have deemed pornographic too frequently to be comfortable with anyone else's judgment.

[Boscorelli]

Good Morning Buffalogirl
MSNBC documentary LOCKUP shows what prison life is really all about.From entering the county jail,first offense to LWOP/maximum security to Death Row. The inmates that are interviewed as well as the correctional officers,portray their lives,in a never ending battle of wits.
Example Casey Anthony,is in a county jail awaiting trial because bail was denied on the first degree murder charge. She wears a regulation jail house jump suit as her day is supervised.She has no choice in what she wants to eat or when,nor does she have a second cup of coffee etc. She has no access to a laptop/internet or a cell phone. All her calls are audio taped etc.
When her parents visit her??? they are searched and there are correctional officers present in the visitor's room. She hasn't been convicted yet. One could say she is taking prep courses in prison life.
Death Penalty is in itself a severe punishment. The inmate hears that the day of execution has come;there will be no reprieve. Shackled and walking to the death chamber,with 4 armed guards. Placed on a gurney,strapped down and IV needles put into the veins.Death is just a minute or two away. A terrifying reality because of the brutality of their crimes
:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

[gabby]

I used to support the death penalty very strongly and while I still consider myself a proponent of the death penalty, I have become increasingly alarmed over the number of inmates who were either on death row or serving very long sentences only to be exonerated and freed years later. Because of this, my position on the DP is that anyone sitting on death row, where DNA in the case is available for testing but has not yet been tested, should be tested on the State's dime before the sentence is carried out.

JMHO

Perfectly said! I too am open minded to the DP, not totally pro nor con. I see issues with both sides of that debate. I don't think many of the ones that I'd consider prime DP prospectives ever get it and I of course wouldn't want any innocent person put to death.

[gabby]

My view will probably be unpopular on this forum but I'm going to put it out there anyway.

The DP is wrong, no matter which way you look at it. I too despise criminals, and would like to rid our society of them, especially violent ones. But I also believe, overwhelmingly, that our Governments should NEVER have the power to legally murder its citizens.

Welcome to HFTM.

[gabby]

I agree with you both...I posted how I felt about HER on Shaniya's thread. I do hope NC has the DP, for they both deserve nothing less...:madranting94dp:

:sad0119:

I had the same reaction when the news first broke that the mother is alleged to have sold her child. This is the type of case that I have no issues with the DP if she is found guilty. I don't know if that state has it, but if they do I hope they seek the DP for her.

[awakening2lite]

I'd like to see all convicted murderers kept forever in prison and then buried on the prison grounds. I don't like that they are humanly put to death - that's the easy way out. I'd like to know they spend each and every day waiting for natural death with the opportunity to consider why they are there.

Easy death is too easy for them.

Another reason for prison until natural death and beyond, would be the opportunity for the innocent (truly innocent) to be vindicated during that time.

[gabby]

I'd like to see all convicted murderers kept forever in prison and then buried on the prison grounds. I don't like that they are humanly put to death - that's the easy way out. I'd like to know they spend each and every day waiting for natural death with the opportunity to consider why they are there.

Easy death is too easy for them.

Another reason for prison until natural death and beyond, would be the opportunity for the innocent (truly innocent) to be vindicated during that time.

That's the way I'd prefer it myself, but too many get out to harm others again. If there was a way to make sure they done life or any other sentence they received, without being paroled early I think it would be a rougher punishment than the DP.

[awakening2lite]

That's the way I'd prefer it myself, but too many get out to harm others again. If there was a way to make sure they done life or any other sentence they received, without being paroled early I think it would be a rougher punishment than the DP.

Most citizens, IMO, mistakenly believe life without the possibility of parole means a life until natural death sentence. IIRC there are about 14 states that currently have life without the possibility of parole, meaning life until natural death, on the books.

The remaining states have sentences of life without the possibility of parole whereby the Judge has the ability to assign the number of years, usually between 20-30 years, to be served before they are released from prison. In those states the life without the possibility of parole means they must serve the minimum number of years sentenced by the Judge before they can be released.


Yes, Gabby, I believe all murders should serve a life and beyond sentence. They should serve out all the years of their natural life and then be buried on the prison grounds. I believe a humane death is too easy for them and none of their victims had that advantage.

[downunder]

Most citizens, IMO, mistakenly believe life without the possibility of parole means a life until natural death sentence. IIRC there are about 14 states that currently have life without the possibility of parole, meaning life until natural death, on the books.

The remaining states have sentences of life without the possibility of parole whereby the Judge has the ability to assign the number of years, usually between 20-30 years, to be served before they are released from prison. In those states the life without the possibility of parole means they must serve the minimum number of years sentenced by the Judge before they can be released.


Yes, Gabby, I believe all murders should serve a life and beyond sentence. They should serve out all the years of their natural life and then be buried on the prison grounds. I believe a humane death is too easy for them and none of their victims had that advantage.

I absolutely agree. A violent criminal is more likely to murder their victims if the DP is a possible punishment, to destroy any chance of being identified.

Also, many victims families are only traumatised further by the DP and the many years of appeals and retrials associated with it. They are forced to relive the horrific events over and over again. Some truly Christian people also manage to forgive those who take their loved ones away from them, and for it to be the cause of yet more death is simply abhorrent to them.

[Boscorelli]

When a person says they can forgive the person who murdered their 'loved one/friend;it simply means the forgiveness is extended to the person;it is not condoneing the crime. Hopefully the person will come to an understanding of the depravity of their crimes.Most people blur this very fine line.
Yes the victims families are re-tramatized over and over by the appelate court motions;while the inmates 'civil/legal rights are fully protected under our justice system:groan:
Many states have removed parole;simple reason prisoners re-offend. 25 years = 25 years 50 years =50 years Life in prison means exactly that.
I still think the electric chair/gas chamber will bring more fear into a DP inmate's waiting for execution,than lethal injection JMHO
:mornincoffee:Boscorelli

[gabby]

When a person says they can forgive the person who murdered their 'loved one/friend;it simply means the forgiveness is extended to the person;it is not condoneing the crime. Hopefully the person will come to an understanding of the depravity of their crimes.Most people blur this very fine line.
Yes the victims families are re-tramatized over and over by the appelate court motions;while the inmates 'civil/legal rights are fully protected under our justice system:groan:
Many states have removed parole;simple reason prisoners re-offend. 25 years = 25 years 50 years =50 years Life in prison means exactly that.
I still think the electric chair/gas chamber will bring more fear into a DP inmate's waiting for execution,than lethal injection JMHO
:mornincoffee:Boscorelli

Totally agree with that! Many times inmates know what it feels like to go to sleep, maybe they have had surgery and went under or maybe they are drug users and aren't afraid of such a fate. Euthanization doesn't seem that terryifying if a person has tortured his/her victims. JMO

[RayStar]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/number-executions-state-and-region-1976

I don't know if this has been posted however I found it interesting. The state of Texas is leading the pack.

I am opposed to the DP but lately there have been some crimes that make me think I would like to be the executioner.

[Boscorelli]

Good morning Gabby,Raystar
Texas is leading the pact and Florida is a close second.It is very important that we DOT all our I's and cross our T's along with advances in forensics A 10 year wait is sufficient before an execution is carried out..
Example when John Allen Muhammud = DC snoper was executed last week;it brought closer to the victums families as well as those who were wounded. JMHO John Malvo should also be executed for his association /part taking,in these crimes.
:mornincoffee: Boscorelli

[Mrs Robinson]

She is guilty of murder, as far as I am concerned.Amen to that.

[SavannahStar]

Death penalty use declining nationwide
By Bill Mears, CNN Supreme Court Producer

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Report: Fewer death sentences were handed down in 2009 than any year since 1976

Eleven states are now considering abolishing executions

Nine men who had been sentenced to death were exonerated, freed this year

Washington (CNN) -- Use of capital punishment by states continues its steady decline, with fewer death sentences handed down in 2009 than any year since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976.

Year-end figures released Friday by the Death Penalty Information Center (DPIC) show 11 states are now considering abolishing executions, with many legislators citing high costs associated with incarcerating and handling often decades-long appeals by death row inmates.

"The annual number of death sentences in the U.S. has dropped for seven straight years," said Richard Dieter, the report's author and DPIC's executive director. "In the last two years, three states have abolished capital punishment and a growing number of states are asking whether it's worth keeping. This entire decade has been marked by a declining use of the death penalty."

DPIC is a nonpolitical group that provides facts and analysis, while opposing capital punishment as impractical and ineffective.

There were 106 death sentences issued in 2009, compared with a high of 328 in 1994. Death sentences have dropped 63 percent since 2000, when there were 235 issued.

Fifty-two inmates were executed this year in 11 states. The last was Matthew Wrinkles on December 11 in Indiana. He was convicted of murdering his wife and two family members 15 years ago.

Late Wednesday, Georgia issued a stay of execution for Carlton Gary. Known as the "Columbus Strangler," he was convicted of murdering three women with their own stockings and was suspected of four other similar killings. He has been given more time to file further appeals.

As in previous years, Texas in 2009 led the states in executions, with 24 -- four times as many as the next-highest, Alabama. Among high-profile cases:

-- John Allen Muhammad, convicted as the so-called "Beltway Sniper," responsible for at least 10 killings in the sniper-style killings around the Washington, D.C. area and three other states in 2002. He was executed in Virginia in November.

-- Kenneth Biros, who became the first person executed in the U.S. using a single-drug lethal injection. A three-drug cocktail has been used nationwide for years by corrections officials, but no complications were reported with the new method. He was executed in Ohio on December 8.

Executions had been delayed in Ohio this fall, after the botched execution attempt of Romell Broom, which raised serious questions about the state's lethal injection procedures. Those procedures were changed but Broom remains on death row. He is appealing his sentence.

Executions are on hold in California, Maryland, Kentucky and the federal system, pending challenges to lethal injection procedures. Earlier in the year, Nebraska became the last death penalty state to formally switch over to lethal injection as the main form of capital punishment.

The legislature had abandoned electrocution, which had been the sole method, but final protocols have yet to be approved for future executions.

Nine men who had been sentenced to death were exonerated and freed in 2009, most after new DNA or other forensic testing cleared them, or raised doubts their culpability. That is the second highest total since the death penalty was reinstated 33 years ago.

In Georgia, supporters of Troy Davis have urged retesting of forensic evidence to prove his innocence in the 1989 murder of a Savannah police officer. The Supreme Court in August granted a stay and ordered a federal court to re-examine his claims. The high court said the risk of putting a potentially innocent man to death "provides adequate justification" for another evidentiary hearing.

New Mexico in March became the 15th state to abolish capital punishment, although two inmates still remain on death row there.

New Hampshire's House of Representatives voted to abolish lethal injection, which would currently affect only one inmate on the state's death row. The measure is pending in the state Senate, but the governor has vowed to veto any bill. An execution has not been conducted there in 70 years, when hanging was the preferred method.

Thirty-five states still have the death penalty.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/18/death.penalty.use/index.html