John List Dies in Prison at 82

[Texas53]

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080324/NEWS/80324043

I just happen to fall over this. I can remember when his story was aired on America's Most Wanted many years ago.

[Roamer]

He had many more years of freedom than he deserved, being on the run for so long.

[KittyMom]

I wish he'd confessed before dying. This is one of those cases you never forget reading. What a sneaky, devious man this was.

[lost indie]

Wow...I guess I'd assumed he'd been dead for years......

That guy was a piece of work...

boy howdy....

wonder whatever happened to his second wife...

[Texas53]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/nyregion/25list1.html

I found the above. He did say he committed the crimes, but didn't kill himself because it would keep him from getting into heaven. His 2nd wife is mentioned, but not where she is or what ever happened to her. I suspect they divorced. I can't find anything on her. After discovering she was married to a murderer, she probably didn't want or need the publicity!

In another article, it states that in a book he wrote, List said he was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder when he murdered his family.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-13/1206423387148520.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

[NJ_Nurse]

I'm glad to hear List is finally meeting his maker. I lived close to him and was soon to leave for nursing school when List methodically killed his wife, mom and children. What an awful thing to do, all because he was having financial problems.

And the irony is.....He had no idea there was an original Tiffany stained glass window in the upper part of his beautiful home...worth about $200,000 back then, in 1971. Had he known about it, he would probably have had a totally different life.

May he reap what he has sown forevermore.

[Nut44x4]

YESSssssssssssss!! :basic44: About time the sick SOB croaked.

[Bernie]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/bernieh/bfef3f7e.gif bye John.....:howdy:

[Nut44x4]

Wel, well well......Oh poorrrrrrrr Johnny.......HAHA!!


Body of killer John List remains unclaimed

Tuesday March 25, 2008, 6:45 PM

No one has stepped forward to claim the body of mass murderer John List, who died while serving a life sentence for killing his Westfield family in 1971, authorities said today.

"The body is still at the Mercer County Medical Examiner's Office," said county spokesman Pete Daly. "There has been no communication from any family member of John List."

List, an unemployed accountant and devout Lutheran who shot his wife, mother and three children and disappeared for 18 years before being captured following a tip, died on Friday from massive blood clots in both lungs, authorities said. He was 82.

Daly said that if no one comes forward, the remains would eventually be returned to the state Department of Corrections, which has had custody of List since his conviction in 1990.

While there is no set timetable on when that might happen, Daly said the remains of other prison inmates have been stored for up to roughly three months by the medical examiner's office.

Currently, the morgue is storing the body of "Thrill Killer" Richard Biegenwald, who died March 10 while serving a murder conviction for killing five victims - two teenage girls, two young women and one man - in Monmouth County from Oct. 31, 1981, to Nov. 20, 1982.

Corrections spokeswoman Deirdre Fedkenheuer said the social services unit at New Jersey State Prison, where List was an inmate, will attempt to find the nearest relative to see if that person would claim the body.

Attempts to reach List's former wife, Delores, whom he married in Denver while a fugitive and later moved with to Richmond, Va., where he was apprehended, have been unsuccessful. During his years on the run, List went by the name Robert Clark.

If no one claims List's body, Fedekenheuer said, "we call the local funeral director, and that person will have the body cremated. The undertaker keeps the remains for a year and if nobody comes to claim them, they are put in a concrete vault and buried in a grave (at the state cemetery) on Cedar Lane in Trenton."

The department will use any money remaining in List's account at the prison to pay for all or part of the cremation and burial, according to state regulations. In addition, it will contact the Social Security Administration, Veteran's Administration and Public Welfare for any possible death benefits.

List's death ended a sordid chapter in Westfield's history. After seeing his daughter and two sons off to school, List walked into the kitchen of his 19-room HIllside Avenue mansion on Nov. 9, 1971, and shot his wife, Helen, as she sipped her morning coffee.

He then walked up to the third floor and shot his 85-year-old mother, Alma. Then List waited downstairs to kill his children, one by one, as they came home. First Patty, 16. Then Frederick, 13. Then John, 15, after the boy put his bookbag down on a kitchen countertop.

List laid the bodies of his wife and three children on sleeping bags according to size in the home's ballroom, went to sleep after dinner, and fled the next day.

He was caught after the television show "America's Most Wanted" air a segment on the murders. A former neighbor in Denver saw the episode and recognized List, who was then tracked to his new home in Virginia.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/03/no_one_has_stepped_forward.html

[LiveLaughLuv]

No one has stepped forward to claim the body of mass murderer John List, who died while serving a life sentence for killing his Westfield family in 1971, authorities said today.

"The body is still at the Mercer County Medical Examiner's Office," said county spokesman Pete Daly. "There has been no communication from any family member of John List."

Well, well, not even his second wife would claim this POS. Good thing nothing happened to her while married to him, I consider her very lucky.

[Nut44x4]

He probably killed everyone ... no one left to claim him.

[Texas53]

Didn't he have a brother? Or maybe it was his brother-in-law. In Texas, if any inmate dies and no one claims the body, they are buried in what is referred to as a "pauper's grave" in an area near the prison. The only identification on the grave is the prisoner's number.

His 2nd wife is lucky she got away. I think if they had never caught up with him, she would have been his next victim. I once heard a defendant say in a murder trial, "once you kill the first person, it's easier each time time you kill."

[PatC]

He probably killed everyone ... no one left to claim him.

That was my first thought too.

[Boscorelli]

I remember this case very well and the prison interview from A&E's AMERICAN JUSTICE hosted by Bill Kurtis.
John List stated that he had 'tricked' into marriage because his 1st wife,said she was pregnant with their child;so he married her.They did have 4 children. If John List sought a church annulment,I believe he would have gotten one;soley based on the lie to defraud
In his confessional letter to his pastor,John List speaks very clearly how unhappy he was;especially after his mother moved in.
While I can not condone what he did and why he did it;the simple truth was John's first wife lied to him and an 'overbearing mother';no marriage can survive and be a happy one based on lies.
Marriage today is quickly entered without much thought and preparation.The couple speaks of divorce options and now there is the pre-nuptuial contracts and the solemnity of the vows are dismissed carelessly.
In this interview,John List states that he was very happy in prison,he liked his job and got along with both correctional officers and fellow inmates.
While I can never condone the brutal execution style murders of his mother,wife and children;had John List never married in the 1st place;he may have never been 'pushed' to the level of stress,that brought on the crime.

Boscorelli

[Roamer]

He couldn't have been too unhappy. They had three more children together. And he always had the option of walking out the door, not executing his family.

[kellabeck]

First part (rotting in prison) completed.
Second part (burning in hell) begun.

Burn, John, BURN!!!!

[StoneFox]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/bernieh/bfef3f7e.gif bye John.....:howdy:

:67302: my sentiments exactly! :howdy:

[Texas53]

Whether the man married the first time or not, he had an overbearing mother and a problematic childhood. He was 11 donuts short of a dozen and would have eventually killed someone someday. Even before he married, he couldn't keep jobs and showed signs of mental problems. IMHO

[Boscorelli]

Hi Texas 53
There are many people,I work with them,who have significant family/relationalship problems but can and are able to work. It is true John List was fired;more than likely due to his 'overbearing demanding mother' and a nagging wife;he could not find the compassion that was so necessary;which created even more pressure. More than likely he felt trapped in a family and was so desperate to find a release.
Hi Roamer.
He could have walked out the door and not executed his family;but he created a well thought out plan;that could have only been carried out with the death of his family
1.He wrote letters to the school,stateing he was taking his family on a holiday.
2. He informed the post office to hold his mail
3. He had been in the military and used his military skills to escape.
4. Low keyed profile,taking low-entry jobs,then once again taking an accountant's position.
5. Re-establishing himself in a church and community.
Hi Kelleabeck
I totally disagree with you that John List is in hell.The 18 years? that he was on 'the run' he didn't commit another crime,living a quiet simple life
He didn't resist arrest and accepted his LWOP sentence quietly.
He found the emotional peace that he longed sought for in prison;that was denied him by his family.
I think John List made his PEACE with CHRIST,died and is in heaven.
Read the gospel account of CHRIST forgiveing the thief on the cross. THe thief was a murderer. "THIS DAY you will be with ME in PARADISE.
Have a nice day all of you Boscorelli

[Roamer]

Good morning, Boscorelli. I may be misunderstanding your posts, but it sounds very much to me as if you're blaming his wife and mother for what he did.

It was his choice, and his crime, in which he also included his children.

I agree he had no compassion. That's why he was a murderer.

Whatever life he lived after he brutally executed his family, gives him no pass from me.

[SavannahStar]

Hi Kelleabeck
I totally disagree with you that John List is in hell.The 18 years? that he was on 'the run' he didn't commit another crime,living a quiet simple life
He didn't resist arrest and accepted his LWOP sentence quietly.
He found the emotional peace that he longed sought for in prison;that was denied him by his family.
I think John List made his PEACE with CHRIST,died and is in heaven.
Read the gospel account of CHRIST forgiveing the thief on the cross. THe thief was a murderer. "THIS DAY you will be with ME in PARADISE.
Have a nice day all of you Boscorelli

I really agree with this part of your post.

[Boscorelli]

Hi Roamer You have misunderstood my post;but that is OK
:22wink:
I work in the medical records dept.of a large hospital. Every day across my desks,I read,in the pt's charts of the painfull family relationships,that have caused them great stress and decisions that later they regretted.
Women do use 'pregnancy' as a weapon to control a man. Case in point.
Anna Nicole Smith's romps in the hay,lying to;G.Ben Thompson,that he was the father of her unborn child. He turned the tables on her fast;stateing he had had a 'vasectomy' 5 years earlier. Howard K. Stern knew he was not the father and was willing to lie in court.
Only after her death and an international court, tug of the war of the word;,PLUS media hype. Larry Birkhead's DNA proves he is the father.
But let's return to John List. Since this 1st marriage took place in the '50's??? getting a DNA paternity test was unheard of. Marriage begun and continued on lies;along with an overbearing domineering mother spells DISASTER.
John List was a quiet,meek man;who should have stood up to both his wife and mother;but didn't;and more than likely lost his children's respect.
The bottom line is this:
Marriage/family are suppose to be a person's haven of peace and security;where one can be accepted for their limitations,frailities etc..
The marriage vows were brutally violated by his wife,who used him for her personal gain than tossed him and the vows aside. The elements for 1st Degree premeditative murder are:Motive,provocation,choice of weapon,window of opportunity,to commit the crime without detection;premeditation,committing the murder(s) and escape.
I will maintain that John List is in heaven;even though you,I and others may disagree;but we will remain friends

Boscorelli

[LiveLaughLuv]

John List was a quiet,meek man;who should have stood up to both his wife and mother;but didn't;and more than likely lost his children's respect.
The bottom line is this:
Marriage/family are suppose to be a person's haven of peace and security;where one can be accepted for their limitations,frailities etc..
The marriage vows were brutally violated by his wife,who used him for her personal gain than tossed him and the vows aside. The elements for 1st Degree premeditative murder are:Motive,provocation,choice of weapon,window of opportunity,to commit the crime without detection;premeditation,committing the murder(s) and escape.
I will maintain that John List is in heaven;even though you,I and others may disagree;but we will remain friends



It's always nice to know the reason behind the actions but there is always another way out!

If he was able to be on the run for 18 years, after committing that dastardly deed, why didn't he just leave? Divorce, is always an option.

He didn't have to take innocent lives just because he felt trapped. Those innocent children did not ask to be brought into this world. Children will be children and want to fit in with their peers. What could they have done that was so horrible it warranted killing them? They wanted to hang out with their friends and do what friends do.

He knew he had a dominating mother, so why allow her to move in? If his wife just tossed their marriage vows aside, that's more of a reason to divorce her. He can always gain respect, if he took his home back.

He planned this, methodically killing one after the other after the other, locked his door and left. He did manage to lead a normal life on the run, never committing another crime but it doesn't rationalize his actions as this needed to be done for his own sanity. He should have walked out that door, never to return, file for a divorce and take it from there.

I think John List made his PEACE with CHRIST,died and is in heaven.
Read the gospel account of CHRIST forgiveing the thief on the cross. THe thief was a murderer. "THIS DAY you will be with ME in PARADISE.

I too believe there is a loving, forgiving God, he may very well be in Paradise, at least after he's done his penance in purgatory.

God will then make room for him in Paradise.

Just my 2 cents...:0009:

[Bayou Lass]

Good morning, Boscorelli. I may be misunderstanding your posts, but it sounds very much to me as if you're blaming his wife and mother for what he did.

It was his choice, and his crime, in which he also included his children.

I agree he had no compassion. That's why he was a murderer.

Whatever life he lived after he brutally executed his family, gives him no pass from me.

Well said Roamer!! I totally agree - it was his choice, his crime. Can you believe that he didn't kill himself because he was afraid he would not go to heaven. Where do you think his soul is today?

[Boscorelli]

Hi Livelaughluv, that is an interesting username.
John List was a timid man,and lived with a rigid set of rules and tegulations.He had no immagination. If he just walked out,never to 'return' he would have felt guilty of abandoning his family.He simply felt trapped.
I think his reasoning as to why he murdered his childrem;was to insure their enterance into heaven;against the possibilities of his children,being caught up in the 'evils of society'.
I worked with a woman named Alice,who had a domineering,demanding mother. She was so timid,that she couldn't even ask the supervisor for office supplies. I got the supplies for Alice.
I would describe Alice as a beautifull plant who never had the opportunity to blossom,dying on the vine.
I could only conclude that Alice's mother had some very SERIOUS,mental health issues that were never addressed.
John List's mother controlled him with an iron fist,from the time he was a boy;never respecting as a man.
I personally don't believe one goes to Purgatory after death;I believe it is worked out here and now;because we go through difficult periods of time and them seasons of refreshment and relief.

Nice talking to you Boscorelli

[Tracian]

John List was an evil man; there is no excuse for his actions in this life.

I don't know where his soul is, as a Wiccan, I don't believe in 'hell', but I don't believe his spirit is in the same place with his victims.

[Boscorelli]

Hi Tracian
What John List did was EVIL no doubt;but the facts are clear. A woman tricked him into marriage,by claiming she was carrying his child,forceing him into a marriage,in the first place.An overbearing dominating mother.
His minister should have spoken to John List about an annulment;and it would have been granted;because of the lie about her being pregnant with his child,when she was not.
His minister failed him,he apparantly had no close friends to confide in and his family showed him no compassion or love.
Each and every person has a breaking point and when the pain is so great,they SNAP,lash out and commit a murder.
I am not condoneing what this man did;but I do understand what provoked him to commit the murder.
I myself washed my hands and walked away from'family',a long time ago;because the stress and pain these people burdened me with.Then a couple of years later they were dead. DEATH is a marvelous way of clearing out 'dead wood'
From the day of their death to this present moment,I am liveing a very good life and have been blessed bountifully so,
Always nice talking to you. Boscorelli:mornincoffee:

[TigressPen]

I felt nothing hearing of List death. He shot and killed his family with no remorse whatsoever, then lined them up in one room and left them to rot where they lay. And left, and carried on with his life. That is not a Christian man, it is a cowards way out. He was in financial trouble and if memory of his story serves me correctly he was out of a job. He was IMO evil.

[Boscorelli]

Hi TigressPen,
Many people like yourself 'felt nothing' hearing about John List's death.
This man felt trapped. No two people react in the exact same manner.We have no idea of how we will react in a most stressfull situation,untill the moment is presented to us.

Boscorelli

[Tracian]

I felt nothing hearing of List death. He shot and killed his family with no remorse whatsoever, then lined them up in one room and left them to rot where they lay. And left, and carried on with his life. That is not a Christian man, it is a cowards way out. He was in financial trouble and if memory of his story serves me correctly he was out of a job. He was IMO evil.


I completely agree with you.

[Tracian]

Hi Tracian
What John List did was EVIL no doubt;but the facts are clear. A woman tricked him into marriage,by claiming she was carrying his child,forceing him into a marriage,in the first place.An overbearing dominating mother.
His minister should have spoken to John List about an annulment;and it would have been granted;because of the lie about her being pregnant with his child,when she was not.
His minister failed him,he apparantly had no close friends to confide in and his family showed him no compassion or love.
Each and every person has a breaking point and when the pain is so great,they SNAP,lash out and commit a murder.
I am not condoneing what this man did;but I do understand what provoked him to commit the murder.
I myself washed my hands and walked away from'family',a long time ago;because the stress and pain these people burdened me with.Then a couple of years later they were dead. DEATH is a marvelous way of clearing out 'dead wood'
From the day of their death to this present moment,I am liveing a very good life and have been blessed bountifully so,
Always nice talking to you. Boscorelli:mornincoffee:


Hiya Boscorelli :)

I understand that sometimes bad things happen to good people, but IMO, when he killed his children, his usefulness as a human being was voided.
Stress is a horrible thing, but I don't care what kind of stress a person is under, this is not an excuse to murder innocent children.

I will have to check, but IIRC, he was planning on taking off on his current wife, in fact he was already creating another identity. I could be confusing this with another story, but I will do the research.

[annalyzer]

I felt nothing hearing of List death.

I did. I was peed off that he lived so long.

[TigressPen]

Hi TigressPen,
Many people like yourself 'felt nothing' hearing about John List's death.
This man felt trapped. No two people react in the exact same manner.We have no idea of how we will react in a most stressfull situation,untill the moment is presented to us.

Boscorelli


Nothing personal. But this man cold bloodly waited for each of his children to come home and shot them, the oldest boy was shot numerous times. That doesn't say trapped to me. It says no conscience - no remorse. He definitely wasn't a true Christian.

[Boscorelli]

Hi TigressPen
You have an absolute right to your opinon,where John List is concerned.
I have posted several times that I can not condone his murders;but do understand about the underlying factors that brought about the murders.
Maybe someday in the future,you might find yourself in a situation where you need someone's compassion and forgiveness;how you think about this man today,now;just might happen to you. Boscorelli

[TigressPen]

Hi TigressPen
You have an absolute right to your opinon,where John List is concerned.
I have posted several times that I can not condone his murders;but do understand about the underlying factors that brought about the murders.
Maybe someday in the future,you might find yourself in a situation where you need someone's compassion and forgiveness;how you think about this man today,now;just might happen to you. Boscorelli



When I am in need of support emotionally due to life's stressors I turn to prayer, my family and friends for that moral support and suggestions on how I can better the situation. I do not murder those I feel are creating the stressor, nor would I ever. It's (prayer, friends and family support) worked throughout my 60 years and I greatly feel it will continue to work.

[kellabeck]

I wish he'd confessed before dying. This is one of those cases you never forget reading. What a sneaky, devious man this was.

Actually, he confessed before fleeing. He wrote a long letter to his pastor and left it before going on the lam.

There is no question that John List killed his entire family.

I agree that he had his parole for many years. Many years of freedom before being captured.

When I heard this good news that he had died in prison I thought: Good! Now he can burn in hell.

PS I do not believe that John List is in heaven.

[packy]

I thought this was interesting if it is true.

http://www.jesus21.com/poppydixon/crime/list.html

John was obsessively obedient, excelled in Luther's small catechism, and was aptly branded a sissy and a mama's boy. The watchword of the List household was "restraint"; voices were never raised, emotions never shown, charity never accepted, and problems never shared. He served his country during World War Two in the Pacific and European theaters and was held briefly as a German prisoner of war.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Boscorelli
Hi Tracian
What John List did was EVIL no doubt;but the facts are clear. A woman tricked him into marriage,by claiming she was carrying his child,forceing him into a marriage,in the first place.An overbearing dominating mother.
His minister should have spoken to John List about an annulment;and it would have been granted;because of the lie about her being pregnant with his child,when she was not.
His minister failed him,he apparantly had no close friends to confide in and his family showed him no compassion or love.
Each and every person has a breaking point and when the pain is so great,they SNAP,lash out and commit a murder.
I am not condoneing what this man did;but I do understand what provoked him to commit the murder.
I myself washed my hands and walked away from'family',a long time ago;because the stress and pain these people burdened me with.Then a couple of years later they were dead. DEATH is a marvelous way of clearing out 'dead wood'
From the day of their death to this present moment,I am liveing a very good life and have been blessed bountifully so,
Always nice talking to you. Boscorelli




:g:

[NJ_Nurse]

.......
Each and every person has a breaking point and when the pain is so great,they snap,lash out and commit a murder.
I am not condoneing what this man did;but i do understand what provoked him to commit the murder.
I myself washed my hands and walked away from'family',a long time ago;because the stress and pain these people burdened me with.then a couple of years later they were dead. Death is a marvelous way of clearing out 'dead wood'
from the day of their death to this present moment,i am liveing a very good life and have been blessed bountifully so,
always nice talking to you. Boscorelli....... :g:

huh ??????????????????? "Death is a marvelous way of clearing out 'dead wood'?"

[NJ_Nurse]

I was raised near John List's home. A sociopathic personality tells you a story that his mom, his wife, his financial problems were all to blame for why he executed every single member of his family, and you BUY that?

I know of lots of families who had internal problems, but not one person executed all their family members methodically and then deviously lived "the good life" for another couple decades before being caught.

Jeepers, I thought I had read everything........