Natalee Holloway

[Battnt]

3 Suspects in the disapperance of Natalee Holloway have been re arrested per Fox news.....Joran Van Der Sloot, and Satish, and Deepak Kalpoe....WOW!!!!

[Battnt]

I am just stunned!!...WOW!!!

[Pauli]

BREAKING NEWS

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/americas/11/21/holloway.arrest.ap/t1home.1639.natalee.jpg (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/21/holloway.arrest.ap/index.html)
updated 10 minutes ago

Three Arrested in Natalee Holloway Case (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/21/holloway.arrest.ap/index.html)

Three men previously detained as suspects in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway have been re-arrested, the Aruban prosecutor's office said today. Holloway was last seen in 2005, a few hours before she was sheduled to fly home.
http://www.cnn.com/

[sunstar]

I'm so glad there's a forum for Natalee here! This is great news. If only Natalee could be found, it would be perfect.

:1222423:for Natalee

[Battnt]

I'm so glad there's a forum for Natalee here! This is great news. If only Natalee could be found, it would be perfect.

:1222423:for Natalee

I agree Sunstar...My heart truly hurts for Beth and Dave....:1222423:

[Pauli]

3 re-arrested in Aruba disappearance of U.S. teen


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) -- Three young men previously detained as suspects in the 2005 disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway have been re-arrested in the case, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said Wednesday.
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/americas/11/21/holloway.arrest.ap/art.natalee.jpg Natalee Holloway disappeared while on an Aruba vacation in 2005.

Holloway disappeared on May 30, 2005, hours before she was scheduled to fly home to Alabama after a high school graduation trip to this Dutch Caribbean resort island.

The 18-year-old was last seen in public leaving a bar with the three young men who now are again suspects in her disappearance.

Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot and two Surinamese brothers, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, were arrested on suspicion of involvement in manslaughter and causing seriously bodily harm that caused the death of the American teenager, the prosecutor's office said in a statement.

"The public prosecutor's office has ordered their renewed arrest because further investigation into the disappearance has led to new incriminating evidence," the prosecutor's office said in the statement.

Van der Sloot was arrested in the Netherlands, where he is attending a university, and is expected to be extradited to Aruba. The Kalpoe brothers were arrested in Aruba.

All three young men previously have denied any role in Holloway's disappearance. The brothers were expected to appear in an Aruban court on Friday, when prosecutors planned to present new evidence to a judge.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/21/holloway.arrest.ap/index.html

[Pauli]

Joran VanDer Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe Re-Arrested For Death of Natalee Holloway
ARRESTED!!!
http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Aruba_203_20suspects_small.jpg


BREAKING NEWS … THE THREE SUSPECTS, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, DEEPAK AND SATISH KALPOE HAVE BEEN ARRESTED!!! The three suspects have been arrested on manslaughter charges. Dutch police arrest Joran van der Sloot on suspicion of involvement in the killing of Natalee Holloway in Aruba, prosecutor tells AP. (CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/21/holloway.arrest.ap/index.html))ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Three young men who were previously detained as suspects in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway have been re-arrested in the case, the Aruban public prosecutor’s office said Wednesday.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Natalee_20Holloway.jpg



Update I: Comments from Jossy Mansur of DiarioThis afternoon both the Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot were rearrested and are now in Custody. The Kalpoe brother were arrested in Aruba and Joran in Arnhem, Holland. New evidence has surfaced that warranted this measure.

In an official press release, the Prosecution gave all the details to the media, except what the new evidence is. The Kalpoe brothers were arrested for two days, after which they will be brought before a judge for the prolongation of their arrest. Joran was arrested for 8 days and will be sent to Aruba as soon as possible. He too will be brought before the Judge at the conclusion of the 8 days for a prolongation of his detention.

The suspects are now charged with involvement in the voluntary manslaughter on Natalee Holloway or causing serious bodily harm to Natalee Holloway, resulting in her death.http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/VDSloot_holloway_small.jpg (http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=3899728)Dutch authorities announced the arrest of Joran van der Sloot on suspicion of involvement in the death of U.S. teen Natalee Holloway. Two Surinamese brother were also arrested. (ABC (http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=3899728))

Update II: Dutch Make Arrests In Natalee Holloway CaseDutch teenager Joran van der Sloot and two Surinamese brothers, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, were arrested on suspicion of involvement in manslaughter and causing seriously bodily harm that caused the death of the 18-year-old American, the prosecutor’s office said in a statement.

Van der Sloot was arrested in the Netherlands, where he is attending a university, and is expected to be extradited to this Dutch Caribbean island. The Kalpoe brothers were arrested in Aruba. http://scaredmonkeys.com/

[bambam]

I'm so glad there's a forum for Natalee here! This is great news. If only Natalee could be found, it would be perfect.

:1222423:for Natalee
hey sunstar!!

i had just posted the news about the arrests in the NH case at ctv.... and the thread suddenly shut down!!! what up with that??? anyway... wow!!! that's what i say too!! joe tacopina is van der sloot's atty!! he said: "yeah, they must have something... but it will not be credible" (paraphrased) hmmm.... WE'LL SEE!!!!

[bambam]

omg.. do you think they've found a body...?

[sunstar]

I agree Sunstar...My heart truly hurts for Beth and Dave....:1222423:

My heart has ached for them since Natalee went missing. They've both fought some hard obstacles to get even this far, and what a blessing it is that this is happening right before Thanksgiving.
:1222423:

[sunstar]

hey sunstar!!

i had just posted the news about the arrests in the NH case at ctv.... and the thread suddenly shut down!!! what up with that??? anyway... wow!!! that's what i say too!! joe tacopina is van der sloot's atty!! he said: "yeah, they must have something... but it will not be credible" (paraphrased) hmmm.... WE'LL SEE!!!!
Hi bambam!

There's a Thanksgiving forum over there now for the holiday. The posts from the breaking news on Natalee were moved over there! (Stacy's forum @ CTV is closed now though).

[sunstar]

Mark Fuhrman speaking on the FNC now. Believes there must be something new and solid to bring about the arrests when the case isn't in the national spotlight now. Caption on the bottom of the screen does say "new evidence found". Mark saying someone coming forward still needs cooberation that it's true. Maybe someone has gone back and looked at what evidence they had and found something in it that had been overlooked?

[Pauli]

I really wish they would tell what they did to and where they put her. Natalee.. her parents need to know where there daughter is.

[sunstar]

I really wish they would tell what they did to and where they put her. Natalee.. her parents need to know where there daughter is.
That truly would be a miracle if one of them got a conscience. :)

[Battnt]

I really wish they would tell what they did to and where they put her. Natalee.. her parents need to know where there daughter is.

I agree Harlett...God bless Beth and Dave....They have been through so much....:1222423:

[Pauli]

I have posted all the links I could find so far in the links thread.

[Pauli]

Aruban Police Press Release[/URL]

by Greta Van Susteren
I just got the Aruban police press release in English…it is fascinating…..
EXPECT MUCH MORE ABOUT THE ARRESTS OF THE 3 at 10pm TONIGHT “ON THE RECORD”
…in the meantime…
First a correction from what I said on air earlier - I was told by a source in Aruba that the press release said (when it first came out it was in Dutch) there would be a trial by the end of 2007. Now that I have read the English translation, it says: “[t]the arrests are in line with the Public Prosecutor’s decision to ultimately decide on the prosecution of the suspects in this case by the end of 2007.” So - big difference — there is no planned trial by the end of December — but rather we should expect a decision whether the case will be prosecuted against the 3 arrested by the end of December.

[URL]http://gretawire.foxnews.com/ (http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2007/11/21/aruban-police-press-release/)

[sunstar]

Thanks so much Harlett! I just saw that on the GretaWire and was about to post it here. :)

Going to take a little dinner break before the news shows come on!

[Battnt]

Looks like all 3 will remain in jail at least 8 more days.....

[Grande]

Looks like all 3 will remain in jail at least 8 more days.....

Good deal.

[Grande]

November 27th, 2007 10:43 AM Eastern

update…
by Greta Van Susteren
We just went to the van der Sloot home…no one is home (we will go back.) If you follow GretaWire you know their neighbors had a monkey in an outdoor cage that we fed daily summer of 05…that is the same monkey who socked me and we caught it on video camera. Well…we brought food today for the monkey but his cage was empty….looked like the monkey has not been there in a long time.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

[Zoltan]

Hello and thank you to Grande for the invite.

I look forward to helping anyway I can. If you look to my blog, you will see that I have a lot of media links. As you can see by the "Contributors" section of my blog, Grande and I have worked together in the past. My main passion is of course is the Natalee Holloway case, but I do blog and research other cases.

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

[Grande]

Hello and thank you to Grande for the invite.

I look forward to helping anyway I can. If you look to my blog, you will see that I have a lot of media links. As you can see by the "Contributors" section of my blog, Grande and I have worked together in the past. My main passion is of course is the Natalee Holloway case, but I do blog and research other cases.

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/


My man, Glad you made it! The more victim's advocates the better!

[Zoltan]

My man, Glad you made it! The more victim's advocates the better!


Thank You Again Grande. I am in the process of making a big announcement about this new site on my blog.

Please check that post shortly.

[Grande]

Well thank you! HarlettOhara, the creator of this forum, has done a fabulous job imo. I look forward to the progress as we move into the new year! Our goal as you know, is to generate awareness in hopes of facilitating justice for victim's of crimes, as well as providing intellectual support as a result of our experience and passion.

Glad you are here with us!

[Zoltan]

Well thank you! HarlettOhara, the creator of this forum, has done a fabulous job imo. I look forward to the progress as we move into the new year! Our goal as you know, is to generate awareness in hopes of facilitating justice for victim's of crimes, as well as providing intellectual support as a result of our experience and passion.

Glad you are here with us!

Well, then thank you HarlettOhara too.

Very glad to be aboard and looking forward to helping all those that need the help and the exposure.

BTW - made that annoucement at my blog.

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

Any other announcement(s) that need to be made - please just ask. I never say no.:)

[Battnt]

Nice to have ya here Zotan!!!...I tell you what, I about fell off my chair when they re arrested them 3!!!....I hope Justice comes soon for Natalee....

[Grande]

Well, then thank you HarlettOhara too.

Very glad to be aboard and looking forward to helping all those that need the help and the exposure.

BTW - made that annoucement at my blog.

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

Any other announcement(s) that need to be made - please just ask. I never say no.:)


I'm flattered man, thank you!

Great updates on NH, thanks!

[Zoltan]

Nice to have ya here Zotan!!!...I tell you what, I about fell off my chair when they re arrested them 3!!!....I hope Justice comes soon for Natalee....


Well, Thank you also Battnt.

I was hoping something was going to happen in the case and it seems every-time there is a holiday or major event, the Dutch or Arubans finally do something... sometimes that's not good, like when they released them during the Katrina Hurricane.

I'm like everyone else, waiting impatiently for Paulus to be hauled in. Then I'll know it's on the up and up.

[Zoltan]

I'm flattered man, thank you!

Great updates on NH, thanks!

You're welcome Grande... so nice to be posting and with you again...it makes my day...:love0085:

[Grande]

AMW update on the Natalee Holloway case;

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=32411

[Zoltan]

AMW update on the Natalee Holloway case;

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=32411

Whoa!!! Van Cromvoirt - the Dealer...I knew he did more than get picked up by accident..

I think that will close the door on Lorenzo. He's not involved. I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise.

[Pauli]

Welcome to the board Zoltan :0012:

[Zoltan]

Welcome to the board Zoltan :0012:


Thank You HarlettO:howdy:hara

[Zoltan]

I am getting a reply from Dave Holloway as soon as possible. I am trying to find out exactly when the ship will leave and if the were sea trials discovered problems. The trials were suppose to be completed yesterday. The ship has not left as scheduled. Meaning today...

I will keep you all posted.

[Zoltan]

I am getting a reply from Dave Holloway as soon as possible. I am trying to find out exactly when the ship will leave and if the sea trials discovered problems. The trials were suppose to be completed yesterday. The ship has not left as scheduled. Meaning today...

I will keep you all posted.

<Still waiting>

[Pauli]

Don't you just hate waiting...

[Zoltan]

I am getting a reply from Dave Holloway as soon as possible. I am trying to find out exactly when the ship will leave and if the were sea trials discovered problems. The trials were suppose to be completed yesterday. The ship has not left as scheduled. Meaning today...

I will keep you all posted.

Don't you just hate waiting...

I do... However, Dave had a 5 hour drive and might have stayed over night HarlettOhara..

He could be still there..and have no access..

He, I'm sure, will call me or email me as soon as he can.

This leads me to believe there were some problems... if he is not home yet.

Just speculating anyway.

[Pauli]

I really hope they can finally get some answers. That is the worst feeling in the world, not knowing where your child is.

[Zoltan]

I really hope they can finally get some answers. That is the worst feeling in the world, not knowing where your child is.

New Videos..

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

It's all good.. ON TO ARUBA

[MadamForeman]

I am very happy to be here and am very hopeful that all of us working together can make this board the best ever! Also, I have been posting on CTVBoards in regard to the breaking developments in th Natalee Holloway case since things began to happen last week! I was thrilled with the 3 arrests.Ihope and pray the Aruban authorities can make this case "stick" this time around! I have believed that Joran, Deepak and Satish were responsible for Natalee's disappearance since their first arrest in 05. Like most people, I was devastated that the Aruban Suthorities failed to make their case and released them. Obviously, serious investigative errors made this case the debacle it is now, and now it is so much harder than it should have had to be to comvict these 3. However, I am keeping the faith, and praying for Dave and Beth daily. Losing a child is the absolute worst thing any human being has to suffer. God Bless Them....Justice for Natalee.

PS: I am currently primarily involved in the Cynthia Sommer case and the currently ongoing hearings on her Motion for A New Trial. She has a BIG hearing this Fri. the 30th.
I am an Official supporter of Cindy's. There are many, many of us across the country. We have a separate website where all her supporters belong, but anyone is welcome to the boards here of course, to talk about the case, whether you are a "G" or a "NG" in this case. In almost every case, I find myself on the side of the Prosecution, but there are exceptions from time to time. This case is a HUGE exception! I look forward to chatting with all of you!

[Grande]

Kalpoe brothers ordered to be released today due to insufficient evidence :mad:

[Battnt]

Kalpoe brothers ordered to be released today due to insufficient evidence :mad:

I just saw that to Grande...Dadgum that makes me mad!!!:mad:..I feel so awful for Beth and Dave...:1222423:

[Zoltan]

I just saw that to Grande...Dadgum that makes me mad!!!:mad:..I feel so awful for Beth and Dave...:1222423:

Battnt -
We have the new videos if anyone has missed them..

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

***All Videos Courtesy of my associate Carpe Noctem***

I will be writing an extensive post about this release tomorrow on my blog. I invite all to join me there. Get a look at my analytical mind.

Comments are always welcome.

[Battnt]

Battnt -
We have the new videos if anyone has missed them..

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

***All Videos Courtesy of my associate Carpe Noctem***

I will be writing an extensive post about this release tomorrow on my blog. I invite all to join me there. Get a look at my analytical mind.

Comments are always welcome.
Thank you Zoltan....:love0085:

[Grande]

Battnt -
We have the new videos if anyone has missed them..

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

***All Videos Courtesy of my associate Carpe Noctem***

I will be writing an extensive post about this release tomorrow on my blog. I invite all to join me there. Get a look at my analytical mind.

Comments are always welcome.

Thanks Zoltan for the links! Tell Carpe I said hello.

[Zoltan]

An interesting item in this release has not yet been revealed and I can speculate that the evidence is not specific to the Kalpoes and only to Joran. The same judge saw the evidence and heard both parties.

Just because Joran says something or implicates the Kalpoes does not make it a fact.

He has been trying to implicate them for over two years.

If he does however implicate himself, that's an entirely different story.

The evidence does not appear to be strong enough to convict the Kalpoes, but does seem to be a lynch pin for Joran. And wouldn't it be hysterical if Joran, who has been trying to implicates the Kalpoes, actually implicates himself and it all back fired on him?

On a side note. Beth, Dave and JQK seem to have met with Mos today for 6 hours.

Dave was not going to go to Aruba, but it seems as if he may have changed his mind after this invitation. And after being stonewalled for over two years, I would imagine he would jump at the chance to see what the prosecutor has in mind.

[Faith]

Tito just reported on Fox that Beth was interrogated while in Aruba this weekend.

[Faith]

Tito said:

As for the second part, yes Beth Holloway came in this morning about 9 o'clock, about 1/2 hour later than expected in a police station in the city Oranjestadt and after which she was put in a conversation with the prosecuting office, Hans Mos and Dop Kruimel After that was finished both the prosecutors left the office or left the police station and by surprise the interrogators came in and (inaudible) by Dolph Richardson the chief investigaor, they started interrogating her which lasted for over 5 hours. She left not very happy and wouldn't say anything on camera. She left the police department about 2:30

http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=12125

[Grande]

From GretaWire...

<Snip>

"tonight we will get the latest in the Natalee Holloway story…there is disappointing news out of Aruba but nonetheless I want the inside story of what happened and I assume you do, too…and yes, we will have the inside story assuming all the promises made to us over the weekend are kept….there is much much more…."

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

[sciencegirl]

Are we expecting to learn today if Joran will be released or be retained in jail. TIA.

[Politigal]

Are we expecting to learn today if Joran will be released or be retained in jail. TIA.

I suspect he'll be released like the others....

how sad

[sciencegirl]

jORAN will be released today at 1:00 pm; just reported on Fox News

[Grande]

jORAN will be released today at 1:00 pm; just reported on Fox News

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315942,00.html

[Peachy]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315942,00.html

No surprise but I was still waiting until the last to hope that something might come from all of this recent drama. I hate that Natalee's family has no new answers. It has been an emotional roller coaster. I feel very sad for them. If Laci Peterson/Conner can return from the water, maybe there is still hope that Natalee will. Bless those that keep searching.

[sunstar]

How sad for Beth and Dave to go through this all again, for nothing. I'll really be surprised if charges are filed by the end of the month since it seems if they really had anything, Joran & the Kalpoes would still be in jail. I hope I'm wrong though! :(

[TobyTiger]

jORAN will be released today at 1:00 pm; just reported on Fox News

So much for new evidence...

:mad:

[Luke Davis]

These past two weeks have been very strange. Hans Mos was interviewed and felt confident he had proof. John Q. Kelly was impressed. Dave and Beth met with many officials Then John Q. Kelly reported Dave and Beth were crushed. A friend said Beth wished this hadn't happened because it brought back the pain.

The other lawyers were confident the prosecuter didn't have a case. The judge reviewed the entire file and found no evidence to justify holding Joran.


What the heck was it all about? Just a show? Some international face time for Hans Mos? A trick to get Dave and Beth to come to Aruba?

[TobyTiger]

These past two weeks have been very strange. Hans Mos was interviewed and felt confident he had proof. John Q. Kelly was impressed. Dave and Beth met with many officials Then John Q. Kelly reported Dave and Beth were crushed. A friend said Beth wished this hadn't happened because it brought back the pain.

The other lawyers were confident the prosecuter didn't have a case. The judge reviewed the entire file and found no evidence to justify holding Joran.


What the heck was it all about? Just a show? Some international face time for Hans Mos? A trick to get Dave and Beth to come to Aruba?

Really would like to know the answer.

Assuming that no charges will be filed, one question may be why did they transport JVDS from the Netherlands to Aruba to sit in jail for a couple of weeks only to be released, yet again. In the U.S. that could be construed as unlawful detention.

[Luke Davis]

Really would like to know the answer.

Assuming that no charges will be filed, one question may be why did they transport JVDS from the Netherlands to Aruba to sit in jail for a couple of weeks only to be released, yet again. In the U.S. that could be construed as unlawful detention.
My guess is a fantastic amount of money was spent and there was a huge amount of pressure on Hans Mos to get a conviction. He made a big show of being confident and having a solid case. It was all a bluff but the suspects could have cracked and it would have been a big payoff. But it didn't happen.

I think Jorn Q. Kelly was in on the plan and perhaps Dave and Beth were made aware. But the defending lawyers were confident from past experience that there is no evidence.

But at this point, it is only speculation and there are some other possibilities.

[Roamer]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but here in the States, there's enough circumstantial evidence for a conviction.

Aruban officials are a joke, IMO.

[Luke Davis]

Holloway arrived in Aruba to celebrate her high school graduation. On the last night she was seen alive, the Mountain Brook, Alabama native attended a beach concert featuring Boyz II Men and Lauryn Hill and then ate and danced at Carlos 'N Charlie's bar and restaurant.



Associated Press (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/5362875.html)

Who went to the concert with Natalee?

[Chocoholic]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but here in the States, there's enough circumstantial evidence for a conviction.

Aruban officials are a joke, IMO.

OK, you're wrong.

The lies of a few suspects and no forensic evidence is not enough to make a case. There is no forensic evidence that Natalee was ever harmed in any way. There are lies from both the "family" side and from a number of suspects and plenty of rumors on the internet. Nope not even enough in the US to hold them for longer than the allowed maximum (in most states) 48 - 72 hrs.

One of the persons of interest was held for 116 days, far longer than any interrogation would have been in the US. Specialists were brought in who deal with interrogating youths. They weren't able to crack anyone of the suspects.

None of them confessed to a crime and even if they had, there would still have to be some type of evidence of a crime, even in the US.

Please don't forget that KLPD, the FBI and Interpol were involved in this also, are they also a "joke"?

Wishful thinking on your behalf.

[Chocoholic]

Associated Press (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/5362875.html)

Who went to the concert with Natalee?

:71526: Are you Luke Davis... if so prove it :happy0207: ;)

Oh I could go smiley nuts on this board hehehe, I'll refrain.....

[TobyTiger]

My guess is a fantastic amount of money was spent and there was a huge amount of pressure on Hans Mos to get a conviction. He made a big show of being confident and having a solid case. It was all a bluff but the suspects could have cracked and it would have been a big payoff. But it didn't happen.

I think Jorn Q. Kelly was in on the plan and perhaps Dave and Beth were made aware. But the defending lawyers were confident from past experience that there is no evidence.

But at this point, it is only speculation and there are some other possibilities.
According to this article, Mos seems not so confident now...

PROSECUTOR MULLS CLOSING HOLLOWAY CASE (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22160620/)

(basically the same one posted earlier)

[TobyTiger]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but here in the States, there's enough circumstantial evidence for a conviction.

Aruban officials are a joke, IMO.
A conviction for what charges, other than lying to LE?

[Luke Davis]

:71526: Are you Luke Davis... if so prove it :happy0207: ;)

Oh I could go smiley nuts on this board hehehe, I'll refrain.....
:hifive:I miss my pink hat.

:000a1:

[Chocoholic]

:hifive:I miss my pink hat.

:000a1:


Perhaps we can find you a different one? :friends3:

[Luke Davis]

Alabama (http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2007/12/suspects_release_no_surprise_t.html)

Kelly said it is likely that Friday's release of van der Sloot ends chances for a criminal prosecution.

"I'm sure by the end of the year the prosecutor will announce he's decided not to try the suspects on the evidence he has," Kelly said. "Since clearly they don't have enough to hold them, they don't have enough to prosecute them."



All that remains is the search and the lawsuit.http://boards.crimelibrary.com/images/smilies/hat.gif

:howdy:

[Jazz]

This just makes me sick! The Aruban authorities get everyone all excited, now look. Natalee's parents have gone through so much.
This will never be solved now!

[Chocoholic]

This just makes me sick! The Aruban authorities get everyone all excited, now look. Natalee's parents have gone through so much.
This will never be solved now!

The same can be said for all the suspects in this case. The judge has deemed that there is no evidence of a violent crime against Natalee. Yet all of them have had a cloud of suspicion hanging over their heads for the last 2.5 yrs.

For all we know Natalee has run off to be with her blue-eyed Dutch boyfriend that she talked about.

If your son were accused of gangrape kidnap and murder and there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever of a crime, would you feel the same?

[Peachy]

SNIP

For all we know Natalee has run off to be with her blue-eyed Dutch boyfriend that she talked about.

If your son were accused of gangrape kidnap and murder and there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever of a crime, would you feel the same?


I have two grown sons and I can flat out tell you that I would be helping the parents of the missing girl from the get go. I would not hold out information or refuse search of my property. I would help on searches and do anything to help. Yes, I would get an attorney if needed but that would not stop me from giving any and all aid to the girl's family. I could hand out flyers, talk to locals since I lived and worked there, etc. There was much the family and suspects could have done to cast off doubts. Ok, they lied bc they were scared? Then after the lies were known, why not help? I can't recall, did they make a public statement after they cleared the security guards?

I disagree that there is no evidence. There is just not enough to hold them and or charge them. That happens here as well and it does not mean that the suspects are innocent. MOO

[Peachy]

This just makes me sick! The Aruban authorities get everyone all excited, now look. Natalee's parents have gone through so much.
This will never be solved now!

Just a PR attempt to try and boost their image imo. I have much more faith in the search than on any re-arrest efforts. Don't give up hope yet. I feel the truth will come out one day. Let's hope sooner than later.

[Luke Davis]

I have two grown sons and I can flat out tell you that I would be helping the parents of the missing girl from the get go. I would not hold out information or refuse search of my property. I would help on searches and do anything to help. Yes, I would get an attorney if needed but that would not stop me from giving any and all aid to the girl's family. I could hand out flyers, talk to locals since I lived and worked there, etc. There was much the family and suspects could have done to cast off doubts. Ok, they lied bc they were scared? Then after the lies were known, why not help? I can't recall, did they make a public statement after they cleared the security guards?

I disagree that there is no evidence. There is just not enough to hold them and or charge them. That happens here as well and it does not mean that the suspects are innocent. MOO

I thought suspects were innocent until proven guilty.


Hopefully, we will learn the truth one day and the right thing will be done.:howdy:

[TobyTiger]

I thought suspects were innocent until proven guilty.


They are...especially when there is no evidence that they committed a criminal offense.

[Chocoholic]

I have two grown sons and I can flat out tell you that I would be helping the parents of the missing girl from the get go. I would not hold out information or refuse search of my property. I would help on searches and do anything to help. Yes, I would get an attorney if needed but that would not stop me from giving any and all aid to the girl's family. I could hand out flyers, talk to locals since I lived and worked there, etc. There was much the family and suspects could have done to cast off doubts. Ok, they lied bc they were scared? Then after the lies were known, why not help? I can't recall, did they make a public statement after they cleared the security guards?

I disagree that there is no evidence. There is just not enough to hold them and or charge them. That happens here as well and it does not mean that the suspects are innocent. MOO

Why should any public statement be made about being cleared as a suspect? One of the security guards hasn't been cleared as a suspect. I don't recall US LE making public statements whether a person that we did or didn't know about was cleared as a suspect. Why should ALE or the OM, unless that person was cleared of being of being in suspect status such as Paul v.d. Sloot?

You may disagree that there is not enough evidence to hold or charge them but the judge who resided over the hearings and who has all the information the OM presented stated that there isn't even enough evidence that a crime of violence was committed against Natalee.

[Cat]

Hi folks. It is nice to see a more balanced view on this forum.

[Tracian]

Arubas' Chief Prosecutor will close the case by the end of the month if he does not find enough evidence to charge someone.

They are saying that there was no new evidence regarding this case, it was just rehashing.

They say there is a new search for Natalee Holloway to take place off the Coast of Aruba.

How sad, seems that there will be no justice for Natalee.

[LiveLaughLuv]

Why should any public statement be made about being cleared as a suspect? One of the security guards hasn't been cleared as a suspect. I don't recall US LE making public statements whether a person that we did or didn't know about was cleared as a suspect. Why should ALE or the OM, unless that person was cleared of being of being in suspect status such as Paul v.d. Sloot?

You may disagree that there is not enough evidence to hold or charge them but the judge who resided over the hearings and who has all the information the OM presented stated that there isn't even enough evidence that a crime of violence was committed against Natalee.

Agreed!

I think our judicial system is the only one who can use circumstantial evidence against someone and get a conviction.

Where is Natalee? These three were the last ones to see her. I think there is more to it, just no body to prove it. Joran's father was being very evasive, almost as if he were hiding something. Which I think he is.

In my heart I feel those three all know what happened just took an oath between themselves to never tell. If there's no body, there's no charge.

My heart goes out to her family, how awful it must be to know your child will never be brought home.

:1222423:

[Tracian]

The same can be said for all the suspects in this case. The judge has deemed that there is no evidence of a violent crime against Natalee. Yet all of them have had a cloud of suspicion hanging over their heads for the last 2.5 yrs.

For all we know Natalee has run off to be with her blue-eyed Dutch boyfriend that she talked about.

If your son were accused of gangrape kidnap and murder and there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever of a crime, would you feel the same?


What really bugs me is that there was never any new evidence, why would they put all these families through such rumors?

[Luke Davis]

What really bugs me is that there was never any new evidence, why would they put all these families through such rumors?Hopefully, Hans Mos informed Natalee's family that he would just be bluffing.:duh:

[Tracian]

I would hope so, because to me that was just cruel. I am sure Beth believes in her heart that those young men had something to do with Natalee's disappearance, I don't think she is an evil person, I mean just look at the misinformation in the media, as well as the revolving door of arresting and releasing. It just has to be torture for everyone involved.

[Chocoholic]

What really bugs me is that there was never any new evidence, why would they put all these families through such rumors?
I think it was a last desperate attempt to get the guys to fess up to something they hadn't done. KLPD looked at the evidence with a different set of eyes, interpreted information differently and the OM decided to take them back into custody based on their information. The Dutch investigators may have wondered about things that were said and what it meant, as has been done on the message boards for 2.5 yrs.

What people say to each other can be interpreted many ways and in the end nothing new was found.

I would think that it would be a relief for the holloway family that there was no evidence of a violent crime against their daughter. Either she went on a swim and drowned but didn't die at the hands of a violent offender or she ran away.

[Chocoholic]

I would hope so, because to me that was just cruel. I am sure Beth believes in her heart that those young men had something to do with Natalee's disappearance, I don't think she is an evil person, I mean just look at the misinformation in the media, as well as the revolving door of arresting and releasing. It just has to be torture for everyone involved.

beth knew in her heart from the moment she was phoned to inform her that her daughter had missed the airplane that her daughter was kidnapped. There was absolutely no media involved at that time.

Hard to make a phone call when one has been kidnapped though don't you think? "Call me Hootie, we need to talk".

[Louise]

I hope that this case is solved and the people responsible get the appropriate punishment.

[Xainia]

I hope that this case is solved and the people responsible get the appropriate punishment.

I hope so also. AND soon.

Xainia

[Details]

If the prosecutor thought by making a big noise he could scare the 3 guys into confessing - I think he's pretty dumb. They're either innocent, or incredibly good, polished liars. 2 years ago, they were interrogated for weeks, all the usual tricks were tried - and not one of them changed a story, testified against the others - nothing. Some time when they think they are alone, unsupervised - still nothing. Everything is consistient with them not knowing what happened to Natalee. Even when they're turning on each other in the car - it's clear they still don't know what happened.


I personally think they didn't do it - they were last seen, but I think any loose group like this would turn on each other, given that much time in police interrogation. And that some forensic evidence would remain, and that the body would be found. There are other options that could have happened to Natalee, and with this lead explored, exhausted, reinvestigated over and over again, laws bent to push these suspects - I think it's maybe time to recognize a negative report, and look elsewhere.

[Luke Davis]

It would be a simple thing for Deepak and Satish to just say Joran murdered Natalee. They've had two years to plan their story. If they could give directions to the body, they could claim the $250,000 reward.

Perhaps Hans Mos had hopes of persuading the brothers to turn on Joran. Of course, these suspects and others have lied. Verification would be needed to make any statement believeable. If nothing can be verified then there is no proof. If Joran, Deepak and Satish don't know what happened they can't make believeable lies.

It really is time to look at other possibilities but no one seems interested in that.

[TobyTiger]

If the prosecutor thought by making a big noise he could scare the 3 guys into confessing - I think he's pretty dumb. They're either innocent, or incredibly good, polished liars. 2 years ago, they were interrogated for weeks, all the usual tricks were tried - and not one of them changed a story, testified against the others - nothing. Some time when they think they are alone, unsupervised - still nothing. Everything is consistient with them not knowing what happened to Natalee. Even when they're turning on each other in the car - it's clear they still don't know what happened.

I will agree that it is an anomaly to incarcerate and interrogate suspects (who actually have committed the crimes they are being held on) repeatedly over a period of two years and not have any of them either confess or turn on each other.

[Chocoholic]

I hope that this case is solved and the people responsible get the appropriate punishment.

What if Natalee is responsible for her own disappearance?

[Chocoholic]

I will agree that it is an anomaly to incarcerate and interrogate suspects (who actually have committed the crimes they are being held on) repeatedly over a period of two years and not have any of them either confess or turn on each other.

Could it possibly be because what the Aruban legal system defines as "suspect" is different from what the US legal system defines as a "suspect". No need to bring out an English dictionary, it won't translate into Dutch.

[TobyTiger]

Could it possibly be because what the Aruban legal system defines as "suspect" is different from what the US legal system defines as a "suspect". No need to bring out an English dictionary, it won't translate into Dutch.
Agree...a dictionary wouldn't work since, to begin with, our system doesn't hold "suspects" in jail for weeks without placing them under arrest and formally charging them.

[Details]

I will agree that it is an anomaly to incarcerate and interrogate suspects (who actually have committed the crimes they are being held on) repeatedly over a period of two years and not have any of them either confess or turn on each other.Even when our police do it for just a few hours, normally one or the other turns - as you've said, when we're talking about suspects who actually did commit the crime.

They're naturally afraid that if they don't, the other person will tell a story about how they did it all. Joran and Deepak weren't even good friends - no reason they'd be protecting each other to this extent.

[TobyTiger]

Even when our police do it for just a few hours, normally one or the other turns - as you've said, when we're talking about suspects who actually did commit the crime.

They're naturally afraid that if they don't, the other person will tell a story about how they did it all. Joran and Deepak weren't even good friends - no reason they'd be protecting each other to this extent.

Exactly correct! Even with all the rights and protections our system affords, i.e. Miranda, one will still roll on the other one after an extensive interrogation...which does NOT include jail time until an arrest is made, and charges filed.

[Beowulf]

Natalee Holloway is in the hands of white slave traders and is still alive but will never be heard from again. JMOHO.

[Xainia]

Natalee Holloway is in the hands of white slave traders and is still alive but will never be heard from again. JMOHO.

I personally think 2K know more the Joran.

Deepak thought up the original lie and wanted Satish kept out of it.

In the taped car conversation Deepak tells Joran he could get 15 years and Joran replies for what.

I have to wonder why Deepak threw out the 15 years.

Time lines etc come into play.

Mind you stranger things have happened so until shown exactly what happened might as well consider the slave trade.

Look at Canoe guy in England.

Xainia

[Chocoholic]

I personally think 2K know more the Joran.

Deepak thought up the original lie and wanted Satish kept out of it.

In the taped car conversation Deepak tells Joran he could get 15 years and Joran replies for what.

I have to wonder why Deepak threw out the 15 years.

Time lines etc come into play.

Mind you stranger things have happened so until shown exactly what happened might as well consider the slave trade.

Look at Canoe guy in England.

Xainia

I have never understood why HMI would cast this protective cover over the security guards, to an extent the Kalpoes and dismiss any other suspects but Joran and his father.

The judge has all of the information he has deemed there isn't any evidence of a violent crime against Natalee.

Time to look at alternatives, as should have been done on day 1. :INhouseReading04:

[TobyTiger]

Natalee Holloway is in the hands of white slave traders and is still alive but will never be heard from again. JMOHO.
I would be interested in more details of your theory, such as how she came to be in their hands? Do you believe that Joran or the Kalpoe brothers were involved or that this occurred after Joran left her on the beach?

[Xainia]

I have never understood why HMI would cast this protective cover over the security guards, to an extent the Kalpoes and dismiss any other suspects but Joran and his father.

The judge has all of the information he has deemed there isn't any evidence of a violent crime against Natalee.

Time to look at alternatives, as should have been done on day 1. :INhouseReading04:


I saw a documentary on a case. The LE guy (head honcho) said that they thought they know who had committed the murder.

However they followed any lead because he (LE) had in the past thought one particular guy had committed the crime they were investigating. It turned out he hadn't.

The lost time by focusing on their 'main' suspect cost two other people their lives.
He said it was a hard lesson to learn and it would never happen again on a case he was investigating.

It was one of those crime investigation shows. The type were the case is solved and they are tell the show was called Crime Investigation or something like that

Xainia

[Chocoholic]

Tunnel vision is the worst thing for an investigator. For Aruban LE to assume that this disappearance was a crime to begin with is almost shameful.

[Beowulf]

I would be interested in more details of your theory, such as how she came to be in their hands? Do you believe that Joran or the Kalpoe brothers were involved or that this occurred after Joran left her on the beach?

That's a good question, Toby. I just think that if they were responsible for her death that one of them would have cracked by now. Another reason that I think what I do is that no body was ever found.

I think Natalee was both drunk and drugged and that all three of them had sex with her and then just left her on the beach.

I think that her mother was a fool for letting Natalee go on that trip.

And that idiot of a new prosecutor down there who reserrected the case out of the blue with his claims of new evidence when he had none sure makes me wonder what it takes to become a lawyer in Aruba. Apprently not very much.

[Chocoholic]

That's a good question, Toby. I just think that if they were responsible for her death that one of them would have cracked by now. Another reason that I think what I do is that no body was ever found.

I think Natalee was both drunk and drugged and that all three of them had sex with her and then just left her on the beach.

I think that her mother was a fool for letting Natalee go on that trip.

And that idiot of a new prosecutor down there who reserrected the case out of the blue with his claims of new evidence when he had none sure makes me wonder what it takes to become a lawyer in Aruba. Apprently not very much.

There is no evidence that Natalee was drugged, there are statements though in which police confirm that Natalee was thought to have been in possession of drugs.

There is even less evidence that would lead one to believe that anybody had sex with Natalee with perhaps the exception of the musical beds that they played in the hotel. Please remember that her friends thought she might have been in a different room than her own and didn't seem to think much of it.

We can fairly easily presume that beth knew exactly what type of trip her daughter would be going on. It was all-inclusive. In Alabama it would have been illegal for her to drink, not so on Aruba. Crime levels are far lower in Aruba than Alabama, so all in all it would have been a safe trip if one wasn't drunk most of the time.

If you are questioning the level of education of Hans Mos, might I point out to you that he is Dutch, educated in the Netherlands and I can quite confidently state that "what it takes to become a lawyer" requires much higher entry levels to university level education than in the US. As a matter of fact for such a long period of time there were so many "professional" students of such high caliber that the Universities took to drawing names out of a hat because there were too many students for the number of seats that were available.

Things of late may have changed, but Hans Mos doesn't seem like he is a recent graduate.

[Beowulf]

Hans Mos sure made a grand fool out of himself. A lawyer should never promise more than he can deliver.

[Luke Davis]

I have to wonder, is a legal position in Aruba something desireable or a place failures are sent? Hans Mos may well be highly educated and brilliant but he could also have fouled up big time.



:faintTHUD:

[TobyTiger]

That's a good question, Toby. I just think that if they were responsible for her death that one of them would have cracked by now. Another reason that I think what I do is that no body was ever found.

I think Natalee was both drunk and drugged and that all three of them had sex with her and then just left her on the beach.

I think that her mother was a fool for letting Natalee go on that trip.

And that idiot of a new prosecutor down there who reserrected the case out of the blue with his claims of new evidence when he had none sure makes me wonder what it takes to become a lawyer in Aruba. Apprently not very much.

Joran and the Kalpoe brothers are not career criminals, so I agree they would've cracked under the pressure of multiple trips to jail and interrogations. I also do not believe they have the criminal smarts to have disposed of her body in a place where after many searches she cannot be found. In addition, there is still no evidence a crime occurred.

As for Hans Mos, your guess is as good as mine. He lost all credibility as far as I am concerned with his assurance that he had new evidence only for the three "suspects" to be released once again.

[SavannahStar]

Joran and the Kalpoe brothers are not career criminals, so I agree they would've cracked under the pressure of multiple trips to jail and interrogations. I also do not believe they have the criminal smarts to have disposed of her body in a place where after many searches she cannot be found. In addition, there is still no evidence a crime occurred.

As for Hans Mos, your guess is as good as mine. He lost all credibility as far as I am concerned with his assurance that he had new evidence only for the three "suspects" to be released once again.


TOTALLY agree with both paragraphs, TT.

[TobyTiger]

TOTALLY agree with both paragraphs, TT.

As much as I am hoping that Natalee will be found, I believe it is time that they (LE) look in another direction. It seems obvious that Joran, Deepak and Satish do not have the answers...

[Details]

I think Mos acted confident, because he figured it'd crack them. But, again they didn't crack, and that's one more bit of information suggesting that they don't crack because they simply don't know anything.

I do think the prosecutors tried to not have tunnel vision, from the start of the case on - but Beth was sure it was Joran, and with the media pressure, I think they got told to focus on him, period, unless they had absolute proof for any one of the other suspects. I think it turned political.

[PatC]

I don't want to denigrate anyone and my heart goes out to Natalee's family -- all of them, but I have long thought that although keeping the Natalee Holloway case active may have done some good, I'm very much of the opinion that when family members get TOO involved in the investigation it may skew the attention law enforcement and perhaps send them off in a direction counter to what might be best for the case.

From what I've read it appears that may have been the case here.

[TobyTiger]

I don't want to denigrate anyone and my heart goes out to Natalee's family -- all of them, but I have long thought that although keeping the Natalee Holloway case active may have done some good, I'm very much of the opinion that when family members get TOO involved in the investigation it may skew the attention law enforcement and perhaps send them off in a direction counter to what might be best for the case.

From what I've read it appears that may have been the case here.
Agree, and also believe this last arrest and release didn't help anyone, especially the prosecution.

[Chocoholic]

Agree, and also believe this last arrest and release didn't help anyone, especially the prosecution.

Nor did it help the persons of interest. If they had been held, charged and had gone to trial, they would have either been found guilty or not guilty of (whatever non-existent) crime may have occurred. Now, all that hangs over their heads is suspicion.

KLPD interpreted the information that was given them, and they believed that J2K had more to tell than they did. They didn't. But it was based on this information that the prosecutor decided to take the threesome back into custody for further questioning. THEY believed based on information that KLPD had new evidence.

I agree it didn't help Aruba one iota but one can never say that not everything has been done within their power to find out what happened to Natalee. Yes they focused on mostly one person of interest with the backing of "the family" but at least another 10 persons of interest were detained and questioned and only two of those have been released from suspect status.

To this date I do not understand why the MB students, chaperones and parents were not questioned more thoroughly. They after all knew Natalee much better than anybody on Aruba and may have had far more information. Instead, the students were told to hush up in the interest of the ongoing investigation (what a laugh when the family was conducting their own and on tv almost on a daily basis) and I would still love to know why at ALE wished to question more students but were denied.

IIRC they asked for around 25 students to be questioned but were allowed acces (with the FBI) to only 21. Rumors are aplenty as to who didn't volunteer to be questioned, but on the list not questioned are the Twitty twins.

[TobyTiger]

Nor did it help the persons of interest. If they had been held, charged and had gone to trial, they would have either been found guilty or not guilty of (whatever non-existent) crime may have occurred. Now, all that hangs over their heads is suspicion.

KLPD interpreted the information that was given them, and they believed that J2K had more to tell than they did. They didn't. But it was based on this information that the prosecutor decided to take the threesome back into custody for further questioning. THEY believed based on information that KLPD had new evidence.

I agree it didn't help Aruba one iota but one can never say that not everything has been done within their power to find out what happened to Natalee. Yes they focused on mostly one person of interest with the backing of "the family" but at least another 10 persons of interest were detained and questioned and only two of those have been released from suspect status.

To this date I do not understand why the MB students, chaperones and parents were not questioned more thoroughly. They after all knew Natalee much better than anybody on Aruba and may have had far more information. Instead, the students were told to hush up in the interest of the ongoing investigation (what a laugh when the family was conducting their own and on tv almost on a daily basis) and I would still love to know why at ALE wished to question more students but were denied.

IIRC they asked for around 25 students to be questioned but were allowed acces (with the FBI) to only 21. Rumors are aplenty as to who didn't volunteer to be questioned, but on the list not questioned are the Twitty twins.
Suspicion may still hang over their heads, however, even if there were an acquittal at trial, for many there would still be a presumption of guilt with the jury not returning the correct verdict (similar to OJ).

As to the MB students, or other possible suspects, I completely agree, especially with the last sentence...

[Chocoholic]

Suspicion may still hang over their heads, however, even if there were an acquittal at trial, for many there would still be a presumption of guilt with the jury not returning the correct verdict (similar to OJ).

As to the MB students, or other possible suspects, I completely agree, especially with the last sentence...

Jury? What jury? There is no jury. The Dutch and Aruban legal systems don't allow for laymen to decide over any legal case, criminal or otherwise. Cases are only heard by professional jurists/judges and it takes them another 6 years of education on top of their existing law degree to even be eligible for that position.

[TobyTiger]

Jury? What jury? There is no jury. The Dutch and Aruban legal systems don't allow for laymen to decide over any legal case, criminal or otherwise. Cases are only heard by professional jurists/judges and it takes them another 6 years of education on top of their existing law degree to even be eligible for that position.
You're right..I knew there is no jury and should have been more clear in my comparison regarding an acquittal, that for many it would be the judge didn't get it right even with him being highly educated for the position.

[Tracian]

I have to be honest, I do believe that the 'suspects' know much more than they are telling...but what I *think* and what can be proved are different things.

I don't want anyone convicted on what I *think* I want evidence to support it, otherwise justice amounts to nothing but the desire to be *right * regardless of the truth.

[Chocoholic]

I have to be honest, I do believe that the 'suspects' know much more than they are telling...but what I *think* and what can be proved are different things.

I don't want anyone convicted on what I *think* I want evidence to support it, otherwise justice amounts to nothing but the desire to be *right * regardless of the truth.

I fully agree.

This case started off as a criminal case based on information from beth. She "knew" that her daughter had been kidnapped, gangraped and murdered. It became self-evident fairly soon that there was absolutely no forensic evidence to support her belief.

In democratic societies people aren't put in jail for what one thinks might have taken place. There is a judicial process and whether one agrees with that process or not is not the point. It generally works for that particular country, whether it be the US, Aruba, Spain, Italy, France or any other number of democratic countries.

From reading some people's posts though I get the feeling that it would be better to hang 3 persons of interest, even though there is no evidence of a crime having been committed. How anybody can wrap their minds around that is beyond me.

[TobyTiger]

I have to be honest, I do believe that the 'suspects' know much more than they are telling...but what I *think* and what can be proved are different things.

I don't want anyone convicted on what I *think* I want evidence to support it, otherwise justice amounts to nothing but the desire to be *right * regardless of the truth.
I wasn't there, so I cannot say one way or the other if Joran or the Kalpoe brothers know what happened to Natalee. While I don't believe that Joran is the model teen or a pillar of truth, it does seem incredible that if they did know, that they could all withstand many hours and weeks of interrogation and jail without divulging information that would lead to charges being filed.

You are correct, there has to be evidence to support prosecuting anyone, whether here or in Aruba.

[Tracian]

I fully agree.

This case started off as a criminal case based on information from beth. She "knew" that her daughter had been kidnapped, gangraped and murdered. It became self-evident fairly soon that there was absolutely no forensic evidence to support her belief.

In democratic societies people aren't put in jail for what one thinks might have taken place. There is a judicial process and whether one agrees with that process or not is not the point. It generally works for that particular country, whether it be the US, Aruba, Spain, Italy, France or any other number of democratic countries.

From reading some people's posts though I get the feeling that it would be better to hang 3 persons of interest, even though there is no evidence of a crime having been committed. How anybody can wrap their minds around that is beyond me.


This is not the only case that creates such a lynch mob. If there was honest proof, regarding these three, I would be boiling the tar and plucking the chickens myself...though, in my *gut* I think they have something or knowledge to do with this, it is not enough...I just hope each day that something will bring the proof of what happened to this young girl, so that her family can move on in peace, and she can rest in peace.

I understand Beth, that she needs to find the reasons, and to be honest, if these three young men were a bit more forth coming, perhaps she would be able to move past them...but to this point, I think that Beth is just holding on to the people that were last with Natalee...

Of course since I believe that they do know more than they are offering I find them scum, and that Karma will come back on them...none of us may ever see it, but they will face it, and in the back of their minds know the reason for it.

[Chocoholic]

This is not the only case that creates such a lynch mob. If there was honest proof, regarding these three, I would be boiling the tar and plucking the chickens myself...though, in my *gut* I think they have something or knowledge to do with this, it is not enough...I just hope each day that something will bring the proof of what happened to this young girl, so that her family can move on in peace, and she can rest in peace.

I understand Beth, that she needs to find the reasons, and to be honest, if these three young men were a bit more forth coming, perhaps she would be able to move past them...but to this point, I think that Beth is just holding on to the people that were last with Natalee...

Of course since I believe that they do know more than they are offering I find them scum, and that Karma will come back on them...none of us may ever see it, but they will face it, and in the back of their minds know the reason for it.

If there were any evidence of a crime and these three were involved in it, I'm first in line to kick their butts. However, no matter how much they lied it (as did beth btw) doesn't make for a crime.

Karma is not for any of us to wish upon another. The concept of Karma is that we decide to bring upon ourselves prior to even being born. Karma also by it's concept may be something that we need to react to in a future life or in reaction to a previous life. Karma doesn't mean "you lied and you will go to hell".

Karma ought to be read about more before it's term is so loosely bandied about.

[Luke Davis]

If there were any evidence of a crime and these three were involved in it, I'm first in line to kick their butts. However, no matter how much they lied it (as did beth btw) doesn't make for a crime.

Karma is not for any of us to wish upon another. The concept of Karma is that we decide to bring upon ourselves prior to even being born. Karma also by it's concept may be something that we need to react to in a future life or in reaction to a previous life. Karma doesn't mean "you lied and you will go to hell".

Karma ought to be read about more before it's term is so loosely bandied about.

I think it is sad that so many people refer to Karma which is contrary to the teaching of Christ. The essence of the teachings of Christ is that the law of sin and death may be overcome by love, which will restore immortality.

It seems a true believer in Christ would pray for the sinner. Beth spent time on Aruba passing out prayer cards and bracelets but for what purpose?


It amazes me that those who wish for Karma to somehow even the score don't wonder why Karma dealt such pain to Beth. What did she do to deserve such punishment.

But mainly I think it is just frustration and people say things without thinking them through.


IMO

[Chocoholic]

I think it is sad that so many people refer to Karma which is contrary to the teaching of Christ. The essence of the teachings of Christ is that the law of sin and death may be overcome by love, which will restore immortality.

It seems a true believer in Christ would pray for the sinner. Beth spent time on Aruba passing out prayer cards and bracelets but for what purpose?

It amazes me that those who wish for Karma to somehow even the score don't wonder why Karma dealt such pain to Beth. What did she do to deserve such punishment.

But mainly I think it is just frustration and people say things without thinking them through.

IMO

If I may expand on your post without going off topic too much please....

Quick Karma lesson. Karma is not contrary to what Christ taught. Whatever you put "out there" you will receive back. If one's intent (even unconsciously) is to be less than ethical then it will come back to that person equally. If it is one's intent to be forever loving and giving, then that too will come back equally.

The law of Karma isn't constrained to one singular life but spans over many life times. One may have to "pay" Karma for a future or past life time, not necessarily the current one. Either way it's that soul's or spirit's decision, not a judgment call to be made by another person.

Karma just is.

To pull this back into the context of the topic, what did anybody do to deserve any of this?

The answers all lie within themselves. A runaway may have been the parent of a runaway in a previous life or may be in a future one. If any crime was involved (within the laws of Karma) one must consider if the supposed current victim was a rapist and murderer himself previously or might be in a future life. If a person is a drug abuser now, was that person a drug abuser previously and will that person learn to kick that habit so as not to come back burdened with that addiction?

Karma is a learning curve, it's up to us, each and every one, what we do with it.

Did J2K lie? Darned rights they did. Did they learn their lessons? Heck if they didn't I don't know what it would take.

Did beth lie? Ditto as above, but she won't even admit to her lies.

Did Natalee run away or commit suicide? No idea, but there certainly isn't any evidence of a violent crime against her. At this stage, perhaps only Natalee knows.

Karma in the long run teaches us to love each other as we should love ourselves and thereby overcoming the required obstacles in order to reach a higher dimension.

~ End of sermon ~

[Sumanadevii]

If I may expand on your post without going off topic too much please....

Quick Karma lesson. Karma is not contrary to what Christ taught. Whatever you put "out there" you will receive back. If one's intent (even unconsciously) is to be less than ethical then it will come back to that person equally. If it is one's intent to be forever loving and giving, then that too will come back equally.

The law of Karma isn't constrained to one singular life but spans over many life times. One may have to "pay" Karma for a future or past life time, not necessarily the current one. Either way it's that soul's or spirit's decision, not a judgment call to be made by another person.

Karma just is.

To pull this back into the context of the topic, what did anybody do to deserve any of this?

The answers all lie within themselves. A runaway may have been the parent of a runaway in a previous life or may be in a future one. If any crime was involved (within the laws of Karma) one must consider if the supposed current victim was a rapist and murderer himself previously or might be in a future life. If a person is a drug abuser now, was that person a drug abuser previously and will that person learn to kick that habit so as not to come back burdened with that addiction?

Karma is a learning curve, it's up to us, each and every one, what we do with it.

Did J2K lie? Darned rights they did. Did they learn their lessons? Heck if they didn't I don't know what it would take.

Did beth lie? Ditto as above, but she won't even admit to her lies.

Did Natalee run away or commit suicide? No idea, but there certainly isn't any evidence of a violent crime against her. At this stage, perhaps only Natalee knows.

Karma in the long run teaches us to love each other as we should love ourselves and thereby overcoming the required obstacles in order to reach a higher dimension.

~ End of sermon ~

Since I would go off topic, I will post a nice thread on karma and what it is in Relgion Discussions. Karma is a buddhist belief and is often very misunderstood.

[Luke Davis]

Since I would go off topic, I will post a nice thread on karma and what it is in Relgion Discussions. Karma is a buddhist belief and is often very misunderstood.That would be nice. I have seen it used so many times in many cases but especially in the Natalee forums.



:a1chic:

[fairmaiden]

Joran and the Kalpoe brothers are not career criminals, so I agree they would've cracked under the pressure of multiple trips to jail and interrogations. I also do not believe they have the criminal smarts to have disposed of her body in a place where after many searches she cannot be found. In addition, there is still no evidence a crime occurred.

As for Hans Mos, your guess is as good as mine. He lost all credibility as far as I am concerned with his assurance that he had new evidence only for the three "suspects" to be released once again.

Hi Toby .... Great to see some old friends here .... Hi Luke .... Hi Choco :0012:. My first post ((thanks Choco for the link)), so I'm sure some other friends are here.

Toby, I agree with you .... Mos lost credibility with me also. I thought it might have been a last-ditch effort to question Joran et al again before possibly closing this case. I thought, if he HAD the "incriminating evidence" he spoke about, he would have charged them.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Hi Toby .... Great to see some old friends here .... Hi Luke .... Hi Choco :0012:. My first post ((thanks Choco for the link)), so I'm sure some other friends are here.

Toby, I agree with you .... Mos lost credibility with me also. I thought it might have been a last-ditch effort to question Joran et al again before possibly closing this case. I thought, if he HAD the "incriminating evidence" he spoke about, he would have charged them.

JMO


Well hey girl! :0012:

[fairmaiden]

Well hey girl! :0012:

Heyyyyyy Savannah .... I was just reading through, and saw one of your posts .... good to see you ...

[Luke Davis]

Heyyyyyy Savannah .... I was just reading through, and saw one of your posts .... good to see you ...Merry Christmas fairmaiden!

:basic44:

I hope they find Natalee.

[fairmaiden]

Merry Christmas fairmaiden!

:basic44:

I hope they find Natalee.

Merry Christmas to you too, Luke. I really have been out of touch this weekend .... have they begun the deep water search ?? Do you know ??

[Luke Davis]

Merry Christmas to you too, Luke. I really have been out of touch this weekend .... have they begun the deep water search ?? Do you know ??I don't know. I did hear they were delayed by rough seas. I doubt we will hear anything unless they find something related to the case.

[Chocoholic]

Merry Christmas to you too, Luke. I really have been out of touch this weekend .... have they begun the deep water search ?? Do you know ??

After encountering heavy seas the ol' girl finally arrived in Aruba a few days ago. The report is that the crew went to shore to purchase supplies for a few days and they would then start the search.

[Luke Davis]

After encountering heavy seas the ol' girl finally arrived in Aruba a few days ago. The report is that the crew went to shore to purchase supplies for a few days and they would then start the search.

Search (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5841828)

HOUSTON -- Texas Equusearch is in Aruba today to resume the search for missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway.

Volunteers will work with an exploration company and use a ship and sonar equipment to map the ocean floor. Equusearch founder Tim Miller is on board that ship.

Holloway was in Aruba when she disappeared in May of 2005. Miller were reportedly told her body may be in an underwater crab trap.

[TobyTiger]

Hi Toby .... Great to see some old friends here .... Hi Luke .... Hi Choco :0012:. My first post ((thanks Choco for the link)), so I'm sure some other friends are here.

Toby, I agree with you .... Mos lost credibility with me also. I thought it might have been a last-ditch effort to question Joran et al again before possibly closing this case. I thought, if he HAD the "incriminating evidence" he spoke about, he would have charged them.

JMO
Good to see you also!

As you probably know by now....the case against Joran, Deepak and Satish has been dismissed for lack of sufficient evidence to bring charges.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22312287/

[Luke Davis]

:francis:









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRPQSDnH4XU

[Nut44x4]

Wasn't sure where to put this...

Greta went to Thailand this past summer>>>.
'On the Record' Special!
Tune in to Greta tonight at 10 p.m. ET when Natalee Holloway suspect Joran van der Sloot goes 'On the Record'! Find out the new info that could lead to the answers in the case. Watch a preview

Watch:
• Interview with Holloway's Mom
• Legal Panel on New Evidence
• Interview with Holloway's Dad
• Aruba prosecutor blasts 'OTR'

• Share your thoughts on GretaWire
• E-mail the show: ontherecord@foxnews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

[sunstar]

I'm watching it! OMG ~ he's changed his story again! Selling Natalee and putting her on a boat. :madranting94dp:

[gramvof14]

From what Greta told us about the prosecuter Hans Mos she said he was stupid and a liar worst than indifferance he just doesn't give a damn shame on him shame on Aruba. I hope Americans boycott Aruba, they don't deserve our money. JMOO :71541::104511:

[Faith]

I have to wonder if Joran is telling the truth. Now he brings his father into this and 2 cops and his teacher.

[packy]

Now Greta says he told her that it was all a lie. But there is something about Aruba and that Carlos and Charlies that makes me wonder.

[gramvof14]

I have to wonder if Joran is telling the truth. Now he brings his father into this and 2 cops and his teacher.
how does the saying go "oh what a web we weave when at first we try to deceive" I don't believe him at all.:71541::104511:

[awakening2lite]

Now Greta says he told her that it was all a lie. But there is something about Aruba and that Carlos and Charlies that makes me wonder.

He spoke of a letter from the bothers attorney offering him 1 million to remain silent until they win their lawsuit. He offered to provide Greta with the letter. When I hear Greta say she read the letter and confirms the offer, then I will begin to believe him.

[Faith]

Joran admitted he was lying once again- :0009:

[wendy]

that really blew my mind again. watching his body language, i thought that he was wanting to tell the truth for a change. im still not convinced he's not. cant wait to see what gretta says tonight. i want to see the wire transfers and the letter offering money too. seems he got afraid when he outted his father, imo. i know it gave me more and more questions than i allready had.

[Faith]

I pray Natalee will be found one day but I have my doubts that will ever happen.

Joran has lied so much there is no way we would know to believe him. I wish Hans Mos would get off his butt and so something.

[emmeblu]

I'm watching it! OMG ~ he's changed his story again! Selling Natalee and putting her on a boat. :madranting94dp:

:thud2:This guy borders on something and guess stupid is not a medical term. Even if JVS is telling the truth this time, what benefit is in this story for him except money for the transcripts?
I don't get it and I hate all of this for Beth Twitty and Dave Holloway.

[emmeblu]

He spoke of a letter from the bothers attorney offering him 1 million to remain silent until they win their lawsuit. He offered to provide Greta with the letter. When I hear Greta say she read the letter and confirms the offer, then I will begin to believe him.

If the offer of 1 mil is true, then why would he blab and risk not getting the pay-off? Does not make sense to me! I think JVS is a big fat liar but obviously, Greta seems to think there is something to this confession. Time will tell, time will tell.

[KittyMom]

I pray Natalee will be found one day but I have my doubts that will ever happen.

Joran has lied so much there is no way we would know to believe him. I wish Hans Mos would get off his butt and so something.

Juran reminds me of Casey Anthony. Let's pray he never has children.

[KittyMom]

If the offer of 1 mil is true, then why would he blab and risk not getting the pay-off? Does not make sense to me! I think JVS is a big fat liar but obviously, Greta seems to think there is something to this confession. Time will tell, time will tell.

I think Juran got Greta's goat when she interviewed him and thought he was innocent. She really believed his load of manure then and got embarrassed.

She needs to show proof of what this guy is saying. I think he just likes being in front of a camera and making people jump thru hoops.

[queenbee]

OMG does anyone else agree with what the defense attorney had to say on Greta and the tape is soooo clearly fake to me I just got so sad when Greta was talking to her mom I wish people would stop putting that poor lady through torment :faintTHUD:

[sunstar]

Joran admitted he was lying once again- :0009:

I watched both nights and I think one of the versions is truthful, just which one I'm not sure. This latest story seems to make some kind of sense because her body has never been found, and there's no "crime scene". It also seems that not to leave any evidence behind, it was planned instead of something accidental happening to Natalee on the beach and being able to completely cover it up in such a short period of time. So it would make more sense that he'd planned to sell her to the traffickers. I felt so sorry for Beth last night on Greta's show ~ still not knowing what happened to her daughter. :1187603408.CR.Mothe

[sunstar]

Juran reminds me of Casey Anthony. Let's pray he never has children.

Yes, I thought the same thing ~ lie, lie, lie. :45024: