Police: Teen Died Saving Friend from Tiger

[rem16]

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- The last minutes of a 17-year-old boy's life were spent trying to save his friend from a brutal tiger mauling at the San Francisco Zoo, only to have the animal turn on him, police and family members said.

Carlos Sousa Jr. and his friend's brother desperately tried to distract the 350-pound Siberian tiger, but the big cat instead came after Sousa.

"He didn't run. He tried to help his friend, and it was him who ended up getting it the worst," the teen's father, Carlos Sousa Sr., said Thursday after meeting with police.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/28/tiger.escapes.ap/index.html

[Tracian]

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- The last minutes of a 17-year-old boy's life were spent trying to save his friend from a brutal tiger mauling at the San Francisco Zoo, only to have the animal turn on him, police and family members said.

Carlos Sousa Jr. and his friend's brother desperately tried to distract the 350-pound Siberian tiger, but the big cat instead came after Sousa.

"He didn't run. He tried to help his friend, and it was him who ended up getting it the worst," the teen's father, Carlos Sousa Sr., said Thursday after meeting with police.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/28/tiger.escapes.ap/index.html


This is only an opinion, the two survivors are not talking to police, I am really annoyed by this case, something is not right.

[rem16]

This is only an opinion, the two survivors are not talking to police, I am really annoyed by this case, something is not right.


I think the 2 boys probably did talk to the police with this info. Doesn't that sound possible?

[Tracian]

I think the 2 boys probably did talk to the police with this info. Doesn't that sound possible?


Not according to the local news, they are not cooperating with police, and lawyer ed up.

[rem16]

Not according to the local news, they are not cooperating with police, and lawyer ed up.

The zoo did admit the wall is too low, so they do have some culpability. It just seems that the police would have had to get this info from the boys, and it does explain the trail of blood.

[Tracian]

The zoo did admit the wall is too low, so they do have some culpability. It just seems that the police would have had to get this info from the boys, and it does explain the trail of blood.


I think it is speculation on the part of the father of the young man that died; but it seems that these three were not 'choir boys' and have something to hide; I doubt they went to the zoo that day to admire nature; I think there is a lot more to this story.

[rockford2]

I think it is speculation on the part of the father of the young man that died; but it seems that these three were not 'choir boys' and have something to hide; I doubt they went to the zoo that day to admire nature; I think there is a lot more to this story.


hubby told me that one of the kids dangled his leg to antagonize the animal??

[Tracian]

hubby told me that one of the kids dangled his leg to antagonize the animal??


That was on the local news as well as, throwing sticks and pinecones in the cat habatat.

I wonder what three young men are doing at the zoo, near closing, and lying to at least one parent as to where they were at or going to...something is missing; now that two have lawyered up and are not talking, I am really sure that they are hiding something; maybe worse than dangling their legs and throwing pinecones and sticks.

[rem16]

hubby told me that one of the kids dangled his leg to antagonize the animal??


There is no official word on that as of yet. I believe the boys probably did do something to taunt the tiger.

[TobyTiger]

hubby told me that one of the kids dangled his leg to antagonize the animal??

That was one of the initial reports which LE appears to be now retracting. They did find a shoeprint on the railing which is being analyzed for a match to the three guys shoes.

I do, however, firmly believe Tatiana was taunted in some manner which caused her to attack them.

[Sumanadevii]

I think it is speculation on the part of the father of the young man that died; but it seems that these three were not 'choir boys' and have something to hide; I doubt they went to the zoo that day to admire nature; I think there is a lot more to this story.

I too, Tracian, fear something much worse..maybe even murder.

[Tracian]

When I was a little girl, my mother would take me to that zoo every Saturday morning, she arrived really early, and even got to help feed the cubs in the big cat area. (I am 40 now, so this is about 36 years ago)

At one time that zoo had 'quinea pig island' it was really cute, a little habitat for those cuties, with 'houses, stores, etc...surrounded by a moat; one Saturday, some rotten human creatures snuck into the zoo after closing and flooded the little Island killing all of the guinea pigs.

When I heard of this story, and heard that these three where in there at closing, and the attack happened right at or just after closing, it makes me wonder if they were planning to harm the animals there; none of them strike me as animal lovers, and since they didn't tell anyone where they were going, and now the two alive are lawyered up, and not talking to LE...I feel very strongly that they only went there to be complete jerks, and nature struck back.

[SavannahStar]

This is only an opinion, the two survivors are not talking to police, I am really annoyed by this case, something is not right.


I so agree! :mad:

[TobyTiger]

I too, Tracian, fear something much worse..maybe even murder.

Hopefully you didn't post that on the other board...after the chastising I received yesterday for suggesting something similar.
:D

[rem16]

Hopefully you didn't post that on the other board...after the chastising I received yesterday for suggesting something similar.
:D

On Nancy Grace, profiler Pat Brown said that there seems to be consciousness of guilt going on here if indeed the brothers clammed up and didn't want to talk to police. I think they were definitely up to no good and had probably teased Tatiana before. IMO

[SavannahStar]

On Nancy Grace, profiler Pat Brown said that there seems to be consciousness of guilt going on here if indeed the brothers clammed up and didn't want to talk to police. I think they were definitely up to no good and had probably teased Tatiana before. IMO


God forgive me, but I am developing a hatred of those three. :000:

[Tracian]

God forgive me, but I am developing a hatred of those three. :000:


Something is not meshing. Three young men, two of which we know have had issues with the law, hanging around the zoo right at or after closing?

[Sumanadevii]

Something is not meshing. Three young men, two of which we know have had issues with the law, hanging around the zoo right at or after closing?

And add...not just any ordinary day but christmas day. It doesn't seem as if these three were animal lovers and would be the reason for the visit. The fact that the two brothers survived and the other did not leaves many questions for me. The fact that the two survivors were not cooperate even when being given medical care .....I think something very very very very wrong has happened. I do hope LE has called in others to help them.

[TobyTiger]

On Nancy Grace, profiler Pat Brown said that there seems to be consciousness of guilt going on here if indeed the brothers clammed up and didn't want to talk to police. I think they were definitely up to no good and had probably teased Tatiana before. IMO
Thanks. I'll watch her next airing. Seems I might not have been so far off base after all.

[TobyTiger]

And add...not just any ordinary day but christmas day. It doesn't seem as if these three were animal lovers and would be the reason for the visit. The fact that the two brothers survived and the other did not leaves many questions for me. The fact that the two survivors were not cooperate even when being given medical care .....I think something very very very very wrong has happened. I do hope LE has called in others to help them.

It may be the two brothers do not celebrate Christmas, but that still doesn't explain why they would tell Sousa's dad that Sousa wasn't with them when he called looking for his son...who was expected home. Definitely something very wrong here...MOO.

[Lucy]

I am so glad to see how you all are thinking. I was beginning to think I was nuts to suspect that the guys had anything in mind other than admiring the animals.

[Sumanadevii]

It may be the two brothers do not celebrate Christmas, but that still doesn't explain why they would tell Sousa's dad that Sousa wasn't with them when he called looking for his son...who was expected home. Definitely something very wrong here...MOO.

Sousa did and was expected home. He never arrived.

[TobyTiger]

I am so glad to see how you all are thinking. I was beginning to think I was nuts to suspect that the guys had anything in mind other than admiring the animals.

Welcome!

The discussion isn't quite so congenial elsewhere...

[Tracian]

I am so glad to see how you all are thinking. I was beginning to think I was nuts to suspect that the guys had anything in mind other than admiring the animals.


Naw, many of us have questions, something is just not right; so you're in good company

[TobyTiger]

Sousa did and was expected home. He never arrived.

Correct. So why would they lie to his father? What were their (the two brothers) plans?

[Tracian]

Sousa did and was expected home. He never arrived.


IIRC Sousa left his father's house to go to his mothers, depending on the version offered, Sousa Sr. called the brothers but said they had not seen him, so did I miss the part where he or his ex-wife called the police to report him as missing?

[Sumanadevii]

IIRC Sousa left his father's house to go to his mothers, depending on the version offered, Sousa Sr. called the brothers but said they had not seen him, so did I miss the part where he or his ex-wife called the police to report him as missing?
I don't know if they reported him missing. I saw when they interviewed the father and step mother. The father stated he called around looking for his son that never arrived. They showed the packages Sousa never opened. His father said he was expected home is why they had been calling around.

[rem16]

Welcome!

The discussion isn't quite so congenial elsewhere...

Best to not even think about what's going on 'over there'.. This place is different, and for that we can be grateful. :zm10:

[Justiceguy]

Does anyone think that Zoo's are just NOT the RIGHT place for wild animals, and that we should just stop caging wild animals like these tigers... catch them, keep them for a month or so for study, and then put them back where they belong...my opinion, we should NOT be putting these wild animals on display only for our entertainment. This is only one step up from putting these wild beasts on display in the Coliseum.

[TobyTiger]

Best to not even think about what's going on 'over there'.. This place is different, and for that we can be grateful. :zm10:

Talk about being in "attack mode"...it seems relentless.

Yes, very grateful that sane discussion can prevail here!
:zm10:

[spike404]

"...So why would they lie to his father?..."

Some folks lie by habit, and nature. Even when the truth is advantageous.

[TobyTiger]

Does anyone think that Zoo's are just NOT the RIGHT place for wild animals, and that we should just stop caging wild animals like these tigers... catch them, keep them for a month or so for study, and then put them back where they belong...my opinion, we should NOT be putting these wild animals on display only for our entertainment. This is only one step up from putting these wild beasts on display in the Coliseum.

There are wildlife preserves and rescues here in California and elsewhere in the U.S. that would be more conducive to a natural habitat.

Here are a couple of sites:

http://www.shambala.org/

http://www.tigerhaven.org/

[TobyTiger]

Some folks lie by habit, and nature. Even when the truth is advantageous.

Very true.

[Carrington]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4072527&page=1

Here we go with the huge lawsuit.

[rem16]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4072527&page=1

Here we go with the huge lawsuit.

Oh no, GERAGOS! :shock:

[Tracian]

Oh no, GERAGOS! :shock:



I am thrilled he is their attorney......has he ever WON a case?

:girl_haha:

[rem16]

I am thrilled he is their attorney......has he ever WON a case?

:girl_haha:


Oh yeah, very true. :67302:

[Tracian]

Oh yeah, very true. :67302:



I have a guess.....it was a group of Devil worshippers in a brown Van that planted the sling shots and the Vodka...

:francis:

[rem16]

I have a guess.....it was a group of Devil worshippers in a brown Van that planted the sling shots and the Vodka...

:francis:

Will he, or won't he show up on Greta tomorrow night? :basic44:

[Roamer]

As much as I dislike Scott Peterson, I wonder if he's sitting in prison laughing his rear end off, saying, "Oh, you poor, stupid s.o.b.'s". :67302:

[Details]

Hiring Gregaros - JMO - but isn't that almost admitting you were at fault? That's his whole practice it seems, defending slimeballs.

[TobyTiger]

I am thrilled he is their attorney......has he ever WON a case?

:girl_haha:
Yeah, GREAT choice!
:zm10:

[TobyTiger]

Hiring Gregaros - JMO - but isn't that almost admitting you were at fault? That's his whole practice it seems, defending slimeballs.

It might be the other way around...that HE sought after THEM, looking for the notoriety and monetary reward.

[Carrington]

Hiring Gregaros - JMO - but isn't that almost admitting you were at fault? That's his whole practice it seems, defending slimeballs.

Well, as you say "the devil is in the details"
When all the details about these two come out, they might actually need the big mouth doing the talk show circuit. Gregaros must know, people suspect the teens and not the Tiger. (at least I do)
IMO

[Cat]

It might be the other way around...that HE sought after THEM, looking for the notoriety and monetary reward.


Could be. Maybe they don't know he never wins.

[TobyTiger]

Could be. Maybe they don't know he never wins.
I doubt they have anything to retain him with ($$$$$) so that leads me to think he contacted them first...
:0009:

[DIBBS]

There are all sorts of problems with this death. This same tiger attacked
someone last year because of inadequate arrangements:

This is the second time in just over a year that Tatiana attacked a human.
On Dec. 22, 2006, the tiger chewed the flesh off zookeeper Lori Komejan's arm after a public feeding demonstration. A state investigation later ruled that the zoo was at fault for the attack because of the way the cages were configured.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/27/MNABU4Q5T.DTL


The Zoo wall isn't high enough....it is infamous for having problems with a number of animals which have resulted in bad injuries.

The Director Manuel Mollinedo came on our local tv station shortly after this latest fiasco and behaved and sounded wildly inept !! He asked zoo keepers from around the country to come and help him figure out how to make the San Fran zoo safe.....he sounds totally clueless. They don't even have survieallance cams. That zoo isn't short of cash...but they will be after Souza sues them for such an extraordinary cavalier attitude! No matter what those dodgey brothers may have been up to, the Zoo simply isn't safe because it isn't well run. Some of their top trainers and experts left when Mollinedo arrived.

I love that zoo and we were planning to visit it this spring but now we'll likely go to the one in Oakland or even San Diego.







imo

[Jellah]

It dosent matter if the boys were teasing the tiger or not, the tiger should be in a containment that can actually KEEP the animal contained and its the zoos fault yet again that they didnt provide adequate equipment and protection for humans (first a zoo worker and now zoo guests) from the wild animals they house.

I also agree completely with Justiceguy about the zoos. I would rather see large scale preserves with some areas that animals can be lured to for viewing for a few hours per day maybe. Of course, this wouldnt be profitable and while it would be the best way for us to learn about the animals (even entertained by them) it would require public funding to operate.

Its truly and extremely sad that both a tiger and a boy were killed due to the zoos negligence.

[BeastofBears]

There are all sorts of problems with this death. This same tiger attacked
someone last year because of inadequate arrangements:

This is the second time in just over a year that Tatiana attacked a human.
On Dec. 22, 2006, the tiger chewed the flesh off zookeeper Lori Komejan's arm after a public feeding demonstration. A state investigation later ruled that the zoo was at fault for the attack because of the way the cages were configured.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/27/MNABU4Q5T.DTL


The Zoo wall isn't high enough....it is infamous for having problems with a number of animals which have resulted in bad injuries.

The Director Manuel Mollinedo came on our local tv station shortly after this latest fiasco and behaved and sounded wildly inept !! He asked zoo keepers from around the country to come and help him figure out how to make the San Fran zoo safe.....he sounds totally clueless. They don't even have survieallance cams. That zoo isn't short of cash...but they will be after Souza sues them for such an extraordinary cavalier attitude! No matter what those dodgey brothers may have been up to, the Zoo simply isn't safe because it isn't well run. Some of their top trainers and experts left when Mollinedo arrived.

I love that zoo and we were planning to visit it this spring but now we'll likely go to the one in Oakland or even San Diego.







imo



Watch out, DIBBS, the Oakland tiger enclosure is too short, too: http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_7836844?source=rss

However, I totally prefer the Oakland Zoo. When I teach Physical Anthropology, we do primate observations. I used to arrange to visit the SF Zoo, but switched to Oakland for several reasons: 1) many enclosures at SF are too small (for example, the bears) and there wasn't enough enrichment
2) not enough natural surfaces for the animals, too much concrete 3) the big cats were mysteriously dying off over a couple of years and 4) last time I was there I got to pet a Tapir. Not because they had a "Pet the Animals" event, but because it was on the loose. Fun, but I took it as a bad sign, ykwim? Oakland is great, the animals have natural surfaces, lots of enrichment, you see the keepers working with them throughout the day, etc.

As for Tatiana, every time I saw the tigers, they were sleeping. Something very odd happened, and the current reports might be explaining a lot, imo. If they tortured a trapped animal...no words can express how horrifying that is to me. But should she have been able to defend herself? No. Frankly, proper security would have rendered it unnecessary. A zoo is responsible for the safety of both animals and visitors.

As for the zoo's cash flow, they always seem to blow their money on big ticket/draw items, like a huge new primate enclosure, or a grizzly display, but they never seem to take care of the basics of animal care or infrastructure. I suspect a board full of socialites who base their existence on number of visitors at their pet project are largely repsonsible for the zoo and the director. He does seem...dense...to be polite...

all imo...BoB

*ed. by author to remove an adjective:)